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  #121 (permalink)  
Old 03-24-2008, 06:25 AM
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Originally Posted by libertarian07 View Post
Yeah, but what can you do about that? Its really not Israel`s fault that so many people want to exterminate thier race. And its certainly not the civilians fault, and that unfortunately is usually who ends up dying in those situations.
You have to remember, that europeans where the antisemites!

Arabs are anti-Israel not antisemites! There is a difference my friend!

I love Jews, and it sad what have happen in world war 2, but when i see Israel expaning its borders, i sometimes think that its to much, what do these zionist want? the hole middle east?

But again, the best solution in my eyes is an 2 state solution
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  #122 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2008, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Shiva_TD View Post
No nation even comes close to the US when it comes to conducting wars. The US has been constantly involved in war since WW II. From our overt military operations to the CIA paramilitary operations it has been non-stop. Most Americans can't even cite the number of wars that the US has been involved in during their lifetime.

If war is the antithesis of peace then the US leads the way in threatening world peace.
Wrong. Actually your Europeans and Communists have been involved in the most wars and killed the most people. The US could never come close. Even your ChiComs killed 10's of millions in a single "Cultural Revolution" weekend. Then you got Stalin. Hitler was a boy scout compared to that butcher.
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  #123 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2008, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by LoveDubai View Post
You have to remember, that europeans where the antisemites!

Arabs are anti-Israel not antisemites! There is a difference my friend!
Are you sure this very important difference does not blur far too often for far too many people? I am really not convinced that most Muslims would be friendly to Jews in Israel.

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I love Jews, and it sad what have happen in world war 2, but when i see Israel expaning its borders, i sometimes think that its to much, what do these zionist want? the hole middle east?
I guess they just want the same as the Palestinians. That same piece of land.
I do not want to enter this endless discusion of guilt and who started it. But my own two cents are that even though the creation of Israel on Palestinian territory was not justified, one has to find a compromise today that is acceptable for both sides, which can be only a two state solution, and such a solution should give both states the possibility to have Jerusalem as their capital.

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But again, the best solution in my eyes is an 2 state solution
Cool, we agree.
If only the extremists on both sides would not always succeed in undermining that...
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  #124 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2008, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by DamnYankee View Post
Wrong. Actually your Europeans and Communists have been involved in the most wars and killed the most people. The US could never come close. Even your ChiComs killed 10's of millions in a single "Cultural Revolution" weekend. Then you got Stalin. Hitler was a boy scout compared to that butcher.
Perhaps you want to count the number of wars Europe has been involved after WWII, including the victim numbers?

If you look onto the European continent alone, it has been nearly a peaceful paradise in the second half of the 20th cenutry compared to the 50 years before...
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  #125 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2008, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by libertarian07 View Post
Yeah, but what can you do about that? Its really not Israel`s fault that so many people want to exterminate thier race. And its certainly not the civilians fault, and that unfortunately is usually who ends up dying in those situations.
I don't think the political strife in Israel is over whether or not they should be exterminated. It has more to do with the idea and/or perception that Israel is a foreign government aided by Western allies who wish to have a foot in the Middle East.
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  #126 (permalink)  
Old 03-25-2008, 11:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
Perhaps you want to count the number of wars Europe has been involved after WWII, including the victim numbers?

If you look onto the European continent alone, it has been nearly a peaceful paradise in the second half of the 20th cenutry compared to the 50 years before...
Compared to the first half of the 20th century, two world wars, Nazism, Stalinism, countless dead, still the US could fight continuously for the next 50 yrs. AND still not hold a candle to Europe.

Europe and communism. How many people were killed under European communism. Peaceful Europe in the second half of the 20th century? How many people went missing under the commies anyway, no one knows.
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  #127 (permalink)  
Old 03-26-2008, 08:29 PM
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Israel ISN'T expanding anything!

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Originally Posted by LoveDubai View Post
You have to remember, that europeans where the antisemites!

Arabs are anti-Israel not antisemites! There is a difference my friend!

I love Jews, and it sad what have happen in world war 2, but when i see Israel expaning its borders, i sometimes think that its to much, what do these zionist want? the hole middle east?

But again, the best solution in my eyes is an 2 state solution
Arabs hate Jews, whether it has or doesn't have anything to do with Israel, thus making them anti-Semites!
They are consumed with hatred, and they cannot see beyond it.

Israel is NOT expanding its land. Not one tiny little piece of land has been annexed to Israel - on the contrary - Israel's given land for peace. What do the Arabs give? - False promises and broken agreements.

Israel's given the Palestinian Authority weapons to uphold order, and those weapons were later used against Jews. Where does electricity come from? and water? - They have no money to pay for these things, yet Israel's kept supplying, and what do the Palestinians do? - Talk about crapping onto the hand that feeds you.
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  #128 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2008, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by DamnYankee View Post
Compared to the first half of the 20th century, two world wars, Nazism, Stalinism, countless dead, still the US could fight continuously for the next 50 yrs. AND still not hold a candle to Europe.
Because you have yet to fight a total war. You never have felt the need to use all means to defend your country. As soon as you feel that, the victim numbers will skyrocket on both sides.

But thats not the point, unless you want to have killed more people in war than the Third Reich killed. (not to speak about the total victim number in entire Europe)

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Europe and communism. How many people were killed under European communism. Peaceful Europe in the second half of the 20th century? How many people went missing under the commies anyway, no one knows.
Depends if you count Russia to Europe. Geographically it is.
Those victims you list where by far and large however not due to war.

Outside of Russia I am not aware of large scale murder in the communist countries in Europe. Suppression yes, but you had that in Franco Spain as well.

I am not talking about suppression however. I am talking about war, but even if you want to talk about both, have a look on Europe. Except for the Balkan desaster, you won't find something with a high number of victims. (If you want to go so far as to inlcude Chechnia as well into Europe, what I would not agree with, count it as well)
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  #129 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2008, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Ronnie View Post
Arabs hate Jews, whether it has or doesn't have anything to do with Israel, thus making them anti-Semites!
They are consumed with hatred, and they cannot see beyond it.

Israel is NOT expanding its land. Not one tiny little piece of land has been annexed to Israel - on the contrary - Israel's given land for peace. What do the Arabs give? - False promises and broken agreements.
If Israel is attempting to annex not one tiny little piece of land, the rout of the West Bank barrier somehow is hard to be explained by reason.

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  #130 (permalink)  
Old 03-27-2008, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Slartibartfas View Post
If Israel is attempting to annex not one tiny little piece of land, the rout of the West Bank barrier somehow is hard to be explained by reason.

You don't get what I'm saying - everything would be negotiable (the barrier is movable), but the Arabs are dead set on killing and spilling blood. They are blinded by fundamentalists who'll stop at nothing.
Nothing will satisfy them other than getting every little square inch of Israel.

Israel's tried reasoning with them, only to hit a brick wall. We voluntarily relinquished pieces of land, without negotiation, when we realized there was no one to talk to and a barrier had to be put in place to stop terrorists from entering Israel. We had to put an end to Jews getting slaughtered in their own country.

So, yes, a unilateral decision had to be made, but annexing parts into Israel wasn't the main focus and it is changeable, once those barbaric creatures decide to do the right thing - sit down and talk like normal human beings.
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