PITY THE ARAB NATION - Political Forum

CHUQ · 11-25-2006, 05:51 AM

A disease is eating away at the Middle East. It afflicts the Syrians, the Iraqis, the Lebanese, even the Israelis. It is the idea that the only political determinant in the Arab world is raw force - the power of physical intimidation. It is politics as assassination.

This week saw another sickening instance of this law of brute force, with the murder of Pierre Gemayel, a Lebanese Cabinet minister who had been a strong critic of Syria. Given the brutal history of Syria's involvement in Lebanon, there's an instant temptation to blame Damascus. But in this land of death, there are so many killers and so few means of holding them to account, we can only guess at who pulled the trigger.

I came across this article while reading the the Daily Star in Lebanon. It is well written and makes some very good points and observations.

The Daily Star - Opinion Articles - Pity the Arab nation, for its violence

Slartibartfas · 11-25-2006, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHUQ

A disease is eating away at the Middle East. It afflicts the Syrians, the Iraqis, the Lebanese, even the Israelis. It is the idea that the only political determinant in the Arab world is raw force - the power of physical intimidation. It is politics as assassination.

This week saw another sickening instance of this law of brute force, with the murder of Pierre Gemayel, a Lebanese Cabinet minister who had been a strong critic of Syria. Given the brutal history of Syria's involvement in Lebanon, there's an instant temptation to blame Damascus. But in this land of death, there are so many killers and so few means of holding them to account, we can only guess at who pulled the trigger.

I came across this article while reading the the Daily Star in Lebanon. It is well written and makes some very good points and observations.

The Daily Star - Opinion Articles - Pity the Arab nation, for its violence

I have heard the theory that this assisination could be a sole effort by some circles of the Syrian intelligence service. You know the Syrian President does not sit as firmly on his throne like his father. And after the last weeks so many potential warm tones appeard on the scene, with possible exit strategies for both Syrian and the US out of the dead end both have maneuvered themselves, those intelligence circles felt the need to force the president back on course again. And to abandon the risk of negotiations...

Thats just one theory though.

Public_Enemy · 11-25-2006, 06:55 AM

Slarti, it is possible... USA also has difficulties for detemining a Syria policy, because Esad and the ruler class of Syria are Alewites which are modern and moderate muslims and also secular while mass majority of population are sunnis. (Alewit population (%30) is also a determining factor in Turkish secularism) .

Slartibartfas · 11-25-2006, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Public_Enemy

Slarti, it is possible... USA also has difficulties for detemining a Syria policy, because Esad and the ruler class of Syria are Alewites which are modern and moderate muslims and also secular while mass majority of population are sunnis. (Alewit population (%30) is also a determining factor in Turkish secularism) .

I see. After all its funny, the Baath party is principally a very secular one. I wonder how it fitted into the US war against "relegious extremist" terrorism to bomb away a secular dictatorship...

Anyway thats not the issue here. I did not know that Syria is divided into several different ethnic groups. Thats definitely a destabilizing factor.

But because you mentioned it, how is the Turkish self perceptoin regarding ethnic groups and what is a "Turk"?

CHUQ · 11-25-2006, 07:58 AM

Take a good look at the history of the ME, since WWI. Assassination and civil unrest are pretty common. The ME is a fairly young region, politically, and all this is just, how shall we say growing pains.

I am working on a conspiracy theory I want to post as soon as it comes together. Look for it!

Slartibartfas · 11-25-2006, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHUQ

Take a good look at the history of the ME, since WWI. Assassination and civil unrest are pretty common. The ME is a fairly young region, politically, and all this is just, how shall we say growing pains.

I am working on a conspiracy theory I want to post as soon as it comes together. Look for it!

Why do we need a conspiracy theory to explain that a former colonial region with tons of regional issues, full of repressive regimes or alternatively failed states that claim to be democratic (now eg Iraq to name one) is shakened regularely by unrest and instability?

And there where things would have gone better with an open minded new class aproaching, a democratic government getting established, the economy booming... mass bombardments bring them back to the place where they are supposed to be. The sad thing is that this dumbass Bush talked about a "new middle east" being brought to this military operation. He could not be wronger. The small fresh growing flower of the "new middle east" was killed by it and the old ME was cemented again.

Public_Enemy · 11-25-2006, 08:08 AM

Well, Alewit is not an ethnic group, it is a religious belief. Like shi'a is persian and sunni is arabic , alewit is the turkish perception of Islam melted with ancient pagan , shaman and other turkic traditions. For ex. in alewit beliefs there is no mosque, their worship is something like a dance together with males and females around a fire with prays just like shamans in central asia...

CHUQ · 11-25-2006, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slartibartfas

Why do we need a conspiracy theory to explain that a former colonial region with tons of regional issues, full of repressive regimes or alternatively failed states that claim to be democratic (now eg Iraq to name one) is shakened regularely by unrest and instability?

And there where things would have gone better with an open minded new class aproaching, a democratic government getting established, the economy booming... mass bombardments bring them back to the place where they are supposed to be. The sad thing is that this dumbass Bush talked about a "new middle east" being brought to this military operation. He could not be wronger. The small fresh growing flower of the "new middle east" was killed by it and the old ME was cemented again.

Why not? Another theory would only add to the debate. Unless we just want to blow off the region.

Sorry, the theory I am working on is not about the whole ME, just a small dangerous part.

Slartibartfas · 11-25-2006, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Public_Enemy

Well, Alewit is not an ethnic group, it is a religious belief. Like shi'a is persian and sunni is arabic , alewit is the turkish perception of Islam melted with ancient pagan , shaman and other turkic traditions. For ex. in alewit beliefs there is no mosque, their worship is something like a dance together with males and females around a fire with prays just like shamans in central asia...

Well, of course its about religion, but I think its safe to say that eg between Shiits and Sunnis exists a large cultural border. And thats what I consider to be the definition of ethnicity. Its all about culture.

I dont know in how far this is applicable at the Alewits though. You say 30% of the Turks are Alewits? So those dances around the fire, are they a common sight in Turkey?

Public_Enemy · 11-25-2006, 08:57 AM

Well, in some certain days it is common like ancient turkic new year day : Newruz... it is the first day of spring.... a new life begins... nature awakes..
When an ottoman sultan , Selim re-erected khalifet to control mass majority of muslims, he started oppression against alewits , till that era, %90 of turks were alewits, forced convertions, massacres took place etc.. Ottoman-Safavid war occured because of this... Till the republic (1923) found, alewits suffered great oppression.. thats why they are most loyal ppl to republic and secularism.. still they are hesitant to express their religous identity because of hundreds of years oppressions. But some of their beliefs are also common in sunni turks because that things derrived from turkic culture and traditions. So it is not a divident factor for Turks but it can be for Syrians since they are arabs....