|
|
|
Dear guest,
Welcome to the internet's top destination for the civil discussion of politics. This is a forum for discussion and debate of the issues, and not for personal remarks aimed at other discussants.
This forum has no political affiliation and welcomes your perspective on the issues. Membership is free. If you would like to join the discussions and debates please REGISTER HERE.
All new members should review the forum rules. The "Today's Posts" button automatically adjusts itself to fit your screen on its first use for Firefox and on its second use, for Internet Explorer. Have a pleasant day. (This is a spam free board.)
|
 |

11-24-2006, 07:50 AM
|
 |
Moderator
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,499
Location: the South
|
|
|
IRAQI WAR APOLOGIES
There seems to be wealth of organizations, media, and so on apologing for their support of the war. Below is an article about these apologies.
TomPaine.com - Iraq's Reality Bandwagon
THis is an exerpt on the story.
Iraq's Reality Bandwagon
David Corn
November 22, 2006
We're screwed.
That's the inescapable conclusion drawn from reading The New Republic's recent special mea culpa issue that combines an apology for its “early support” of the Iraq war with a colloquium on what to do now in Iraq. Sixteen foreign policy thinkers were asked to provide a roadmap out of this debacle. No surprise, the magazine received assorted and contradictory advice. Taken together, it's a mind-blowing.
Your thoughts would be appreciated--it is interesting even if you do not agree,
|

11-24-2006, 08:03 PM
|
|
Marquis
Skeptical Patriot
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,170
|
|
|
I honestly don't see the need for these apologies. Just say you bought Bush's bullshit and were duped, big-time. "I was lied to and fell for it." End of story.
As for Washington, it seems that right after the invasion the politicians were falling all over themselves to see who could support the war the most, and none of THEM are apologising.
__________________
Not a day goes by that I don't see something that reinforces my belief that people are idiots.
|

11-24-2006, 08:29 PM
|
 |
Moderator
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 999
|
|
|
The ones who ought to apologize are the ones who started this mess.
__________________
"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead." Thomas Paine
Military might doesn't make up for political stupidity.
|

11-25-2006, 02:13 AM
|
|
Mercenary
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 248
|
|
|
I remember when the war was declared that it had something like an 80% approval rate. Now, I've opposed the invasion of Iraq from the beginning - not because I'm some kind of "peacenick", but because I didn't buy the WMD story and I didn't think it made any logical sense. I understand that the winds of change have blown through our country over the last several years and that it's no longer popular to support Dubya. In general, I understand that support for a protracted, long-distance war that isn't strictly necessary wanes rather quickly.
But still... I have to wonder about so many people supporting it initially and now opposing it. Is it because the war hasn't gone well? Well, doesn't that happen sometimes with war? Is it because the body count has piled up? Well, doesn't that happen somtimes with war? Is it because the initial rationale didn't stand up to scrutiny and new ones have been invented? Well, that doesn't happen all that often, but people bought it for a while...
I guess what I'm wondering is why public support has changed so overwhelmingly with this war. As someone who thought it was a stupid idea from the beginning, I have to inquire of former supporters... "what changed"? Is a war okay as long as it goes quickly and has a small body count? Are there some principles that are worth a small degree of sacrifice, but not a large one? I guess what I'm driving at is this: if you think the country should go to war, shouldn't you be in it "through thick and thin" and "whatever the cost"? In my opinion, if a cause is worthy of war, then it is worthy of every last soldier and able bodied citizen giving his life. If, right from the start, it isn't worth that, then it isn't worth fighting. So, I don't see why deathcounts and setbacks should cause people to change their minds.
Last edited by drgoodtrips : 11-25-2006 at 02:19 AM.
|

11-25-2006, 05:09 AM
|
 |
Moderator
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 3,499
Location: the South
|
|
|
Dr.--that is a good question and as long as I can remember the American people float on the political winds. To me the only apology necessary is to the families of the dead.
It would seem that the apologists are trying to cover their collective asses as the anti-war movement strenghtens. Basically, try to avoid accepting responsibility for their initial support for the war.
|

11-25-2006, 12:43 PM
|
|
Marquis
Skeptical Patriot
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,170
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by drgoodtrips
I remember when the war was declared that it had something like an 80% approval rate. Now, I've opposed the invasion of Iraq from the beginning - not because I'm some kind of "peacenick", but because I didn't buy the WMD story and I didn't think it made any logical sense.
|
I completely agree and I was also one of the original skeptics who questioned why they went to war with a country that was no threat to us, had no large terrorist base (as Saddam Hussein didn't WANT terrorists there) and which we had been attacking every time they turned on their RADAR for almost a decade. That, plus the fact that we diverted attention and resources AWAY from a country that we were told WAS the location of Al Qeaeda(sp).
More unanswered questions that are disregarded and lumped in with "did Bush sneak up behind the WTC and light a fuse just before Cheney fired a RPG at the towers" nonsense.
__________________
Not a day goes by that I don't see something that reinforces my belief that people are idiots.
|

11-25-2006, 02:11 PM
|
 |
Moderator
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 4,850
Location: Vedunia
Country:
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by drgoodtrips
I remember when the war was declared that it had something like an 80% approval rate. Now, I've opposed the invasion of Iraq from the beginning - not because I'm some kind of "peacenick", but because I didn't buy the WMD story and I didn't think it made any logical sense. I understand that the winds of change have blown through our country over the last several years and that it's no longer popular to support Dubya. In general, I understand that support for a protracted, long-distance war that isn't strictly necessary wanes rather quickly.
But still... I have to wonder about so many people supporting it initially and now opposing it. Is it because the war hasn't gone well? Well, doesn't that happen sometimes with war? Is it because the body count has piled up? Well, doesn't that happen somtimes with war? Is it because the initial rationale didn't stand up to scrutiny and new ones have been invented? Well, that doesn't happen all that often, but people bought it for a while...
I guess what I'm wondering is why public support has changed so overwhelmingly with this war. As someone who thought it was a stupid idea from the beginning, I have to inquire of former supporters... "what changed"? Is a war okay as long as it goes quickly and has a small body count? Are there some principles that are worth a small degree of sacrifice, but not a large one? I guess what I'm driving at is this: if you think the country should go to war, shouldn't you be in it "through thick and thin" and "whatever the cost"? In my opinion, if a cause is worthy of war, then it is worthy of every last soldier and able bodied citizen giving his life. If, right from the start, it isn't worth that, then it isn't worth fighting. So, I don't see why deathcounts and setbacks should cause people to change their minds.
|
Goodtrip I speak from a European position as you might guess. You will guess what that means.
I believe the point that has changed is the following. In the beginning of the war many US Americans thought it would be a demonstration of the nearly unlimited power of the United States. But not only that, it would also improve the situation in the middle east, if not according to some idealist democracy founding way than at least in the interests of the US.
Now reality has surpassed those war supporters. Instead of a demonstration of power, Iraq has become the demonstration of your incapabilities. But even more it has significantly weakened the stand of the US worldwide, eaten up your capacities, fostered terrorism (principally Al Quaida et al should have to pay you for the great job in Iraq), deepened the trenches in the middle east in general, fostered Irans local power, ... ehm yes, and the WMD's in possession of an insane regime Bush talked about before the war are flying around now in North Korea.
I dont know maybe the US Americans dont see it that much, maybe they just oppose the Iraq war now because of some coffins returning home. But if I were a former war supporter, those things mentioned above would have made me somewhat reflecting about that all.
Last edited by Slartibartfas : 11-25-2006 at 02:13 PM.
|

11-25-2006, 06:53 PM
|
 |
Mercenary
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 306
Location: Woodlawn TN
Country:
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by drgoodtrips
I guess what I'm wondering is why public support has changed so overwhelmingly with this war. As someone who thought it was a stupid idea from the beginning, I have to inquire of former supporters... "what changed"? Is a war okay as long as it goes quickly and has a small body count? Are there some principles that are worth a small degree of sacrifice, but not a large one? I guess what I'm driving at is this: if you think the country should go to war, shouldn't you be in it "through thick and thin" and "whatever the cost"? In my opinion, if a cause is worthy of war, then it is worthy of every last soldier and able bodied citizen giving his life. If, right from the start, it isn't worth that, then it isn't worth fighting. So, I don't see why deathcounts and setbacks should cause people to change their minds.
|
this is a awesome question
i support it due to my involvement with it
but if i wasnt, and i were to geuss , i think it is cause americans on a whole are very "fast food" and FICKLE
its hard to keep their interest and support on anything
go back to 9/11
i live in a military town, the flags were flying high , people were wearing patriotic shirts , they were supportive
8 months later i came home from afghanistan
no flags, no shirts, business as usuall 
__________________
"Let Valor Not Fail"

|
| Thread Tools |
|
|
| Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:32 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8 Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.1.0
A vBSkinworks Design
 |
|