Israel - Page 2 - Political Forum

calmObserver · 05-11-2008, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Swiss 557

I agree, Israel should be held accountable for their actions, the only problem is the UN won't do anything about it is because the permanent members are only following their agenda, they veto the bills that are contradictory to their interests.

not so. the u.s. (a.k.a. the veto king) will not allow it; U.S. Vetoes of UN Resolutions Critical of Israel.

BTW since early 1970's u.s. has used veto more than all permenant members combined.

GlobalSmiles · 05-11-2008, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calmObserver

i'm afraid the data does not support your position.

I forgot Israel is evil, Arabs are saints. Fixed.

I formally take the semetic comments back btw.

Praise Allah.

francois60 · 05-12-2008, 07:23 AM

To answer the OP, yes, the term anti-semite is thrown around way too often, but that's true of any PC epithet, such as racist, sexist, homophobe, etc.

However, there are real examples of all of those and complaining of their overuse is a standard tactic of anti-semites, racists, homophobes, etc.

To me, these arguments can often cross the line into anti-semetism:

1) Singling out Israel for things many other nations do, but never criticizing those other nations. Considering the nature of Arab regimes it's especially obvious.

2) Telling lies about Israel or uncritically accepting conspiracy theories. Persecution against Jews has often been justified by blood libels.

3) Obsessing about Israel to the near or total exclusion of all other nations. A disturbing number of people all over the world seem to think Israel is the most important nation in the world and every action and word of Israel is scrutinized in a way that isn't true of any other country. There are other occupations in the world that are far more brutal than Israel's occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. There are other disputes between nations which are far hotter and have potential for wider wars than between Israel and the Arabs. People who post almost exclusively about Israel should explain why Israel is so much more important to them than anything else.

The Lying Dutchman · 05-12-2008, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francois60

To answer the OP, yes, the term anti-semite is thrown around way too often, but that's true of any PC epithet, such as racist, sexist, homophobe, etc.

However, there are real examples of all of those and complaining of their overuse is a standard tactic of anti-semites, racists, homophobes, etc.

To me, these arguments can often cross the line into anti-semetism:

1) Singling out Israel for things many other nations do, but never criticizing those other nations. Considering the nature of Arab regimes it's especially obvious.

2) Telling lies about Israel or uncritically accepting conspiracy theories. Persecution against Jews has often been justified by blood libels.

3) Obsessing about Israel to the near or total exclusion of all other nations. A disturbing number of people all over the world seem to think Israel is the most important nation in the world and every action and word of Israel is scrutinized in a way that isn't true of any other country. There are other occupations in the world that are far more brutal than Israel's occupation of the West Bank and Gaza Strip. There are other disputes between nations which are far hotter and have potential for wider wars than between Israel and the Arabs. People who post almost exclusively about Israel should explain why Israel is so much more important to them than anything else.

i think people single out israel because it is a very strange case of state building. build out of european guilt in land outside of the continent, many experience the european decision as a root cause to what is one of the most troublesome conflicts of today.

calmObserver · 05-12-2008, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Lying Dutchman

i think people single out israel because it is a very strange case of state building. build out of european guilt in land outside of the continent, many experience the european decision as a root cause to what is one of the most troublesome conflicts of today.

many members of the u.n. have experienced european colonialism, and this is what they see when they view israel. mid eastern muslims see this as their being made to pay for a crime committed by europeans. u.s. for political reasons has blocked reasonable solutions to this problem, and are paying the price for it.

see first few pages of iraq study group's report.

They Dare to Speak Out: People and Institutions Confront Israel's Lobby

The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy

note: 70+ percent of american people say u.s. government should be evenhanded in this conflict, but are unaware of the facts on the ground.

for reasons why see; Analysis of Media on Israel/Palestine

calmObserver · 05-12-2008, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlobalSmiles

I forgot Israel is evil, Arabs are saints. Fixed.

I formally take the semetic comments back btw.

Praise Allah.

no you made a claim you could not back up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlobalSmiles

...Mind you Israel barely reacts to daily attacks. Most of the violence in Israel the past few months has been pally against pally. . .

note: for those interested, you can view up to date stats (from B'TSELEM - The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories ) here

GlobalSmiles · 05-12-2008, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calmObserver

many members of the u.n. have experienced european colonialism, and this is what they see when they view israel. mid eastern muslims see this as their being made to pay for a crime committed by europeans. u.s. for political reasons has blocked reasonable solutions to this problem, and are paying the price for it.

see first few pages of iraq study group's report.

They Dare to Speak Out: People and Institutions Confront Israel's Lobby

The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy

note: 70+ percent of american people say u.s. government should be evenhanded in this conflict, but are unaware of the facts on the ground.

for reasons why see; Analysis of Media on Israel/Palestine

Jewish population - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They have no rght to speak? Effectiveness is astounding indeed, but considering how many are in the US. . .

Mideastern Muslims are hardly innocent in Jewish persecution either. . .No shortage of it from them ethier and here you have people who remembered a had the power to do something about again. They did and they did it about the only way you can, they flooded the area.

Extremists on both sides are going to have to stop. Israeli state is not going to go away, probably ever. US military certainly isn't loosing slack to its enemies anytime soon.

calmObserver · 05-13-2008, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlobalSmiles

...They have no rght to speak?...

indeed they do just as the other 98% of america does. bottom line is; what is good for one country may or may not be good for the other country. not as some in america who believe what is good for israel is also good for america

Arab League · 05-13-2008, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calmObserver

i'm afraid the data does not support your position.

i admire the fact That you base your comments with Facts, my problem is that i cant find enaugh credible, or unbiased places to get facts from...

people dont understand tha yes people on both sides are dying, but on the Arab and Palesinian side i is much higher rate, and they are mostly civilians, Children and Women...

and thats excluding the damage in the Neighboring Arab infrastrucure, yet somehow Americans and Europeans find us the Terrorists...

calmObserver · 05-13-2008, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arab League

...my problem is that i cant find enaugh credible, or unbiased places to get facts from...

israelis themselves. i'm sure you will agree there are many israelis who do not agree with current situation? i have found ran haCohen's letter from israel valuable ~ be sure to follow his links

BTW for american's you can find out much about what is going on in the u.s. by paying attention to israeli news.