Free Palestine - Page 2 - Political Forum

The Lying Dutchman · 03-29-2008, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caltex

Israeli occupation obviously.

Palestinians and Israeli's cannot coexist peacefully, and thus a separate nation is necessary for the Palestinians if the violence is to ever cease. I support the concept of a "free" Palestine, but would not support it in the military or economic sense, but nor do I support Israel in those ways. I would much prefer it if foreign nations got out of the way though, and let the two people's battle it out themselves.

you mean let it escalate?

Voland · 03-29-2008, 10:54 AM

[quote=Ronnie;161307]You know, hitler was elected DEMOCRATICALLY as well, or does that make no difference to you? It's all the same to you, uh?

No,Hitler was appointed, he didn´t have a democratic majority. Therefore he headed a coalition governement but slowly changed the system into a dictatorship.

::Nazi Germany - Dictatorship::

Hamas isn´t a monolithic bloc with just one opinion and just one stance on negotiations with Israel.
To rule out any negotiations from the beginning was definitely a major mistake.
What is the difference with the PLO prior to the Oslo Treaties ?

Shiva_TD · 03-29-2008, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie

You know, hitler was elected DEMOCRATICALLY as well, or does that make no difference to you? It's all the same to you, uh? All the more reason to vote for Hamas? (This is a genuine question, not sarcasm).

The fact that the Palestinians voted for Hamas brings me to the following conclusions:

1. The majority of the Palestinians is extreme fundamentalists, the likes of 9/11 perpetrators, who can never be trusted to make peace with.

2. The majority of the Palestinians doesn't have the foggiest idea as to how to vote for a leader who'll take them to good places.

Look where Hamas has gotten them: They have no money, no food, no job, no future. The Palestinian economy is in shambles. Is this what courageous peace makers envisioned for them? Is this what the Palestinians want for themselves? To me it sounds like a very stupid, bad, bad, bad decision, not just because I advocate peace, but because Hamas doesn't have any real agenda that will enable the Palestinians to have a better future.

As you point out Hitler was initially elected (later to take dictatorial control) and the world would have been better off had other nations seriously dealt with him. I'm not talking about the "roll over take it in the ass" diplomacy of Chamberlain which merely evaded dealing with Hitler but actually addressing the issues related to Hitler's Germany. Ignoring or evading a problem does not resolve the problem.

I would disagree with your conclusions though. I believe that the Palestinians voted for Hamas out of continued frustration with the failure to resolve the perceived tyranny and oppression of the State of Israel against the Palestinian People. And yes, it has lead to more hardship for the Palestinians but that is primarily because of sanctions by Israel and the United States. The funds of the Palestinians have been frozen and food and goods are denied them. This merely reinforces the perceived tyranny and oppression of the "West" and Israel against the Palestinian People. The sanctions reinforce the justification of the Palestinians to support Hamas and increase the problem making a peaceful settlement less likely (more probably impossible).

The entire issue really has nothing to do with religion and those that believe it does are fools. Whether you are talking about Hamas, Hezbollah, or al Qaeda, it is really about perceived oppression and tyranny and religion is merely a common uniting force. Lacking the perception of oppression and tyranny none of these organizations would exist.

DamnYankee · 03-31-2008, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr. Smith

How many people on this forum support freeing Palestine.
and why?

Let the Arabs free themselves from Islam, dictators, and despots.

Ronnie · 03-31-2008, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamnYankee

Let the Arabs free themselves from Islam, dictators, and despots.

Concise and right to the point!

DamnYankee · 03-31-2008, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronnie

Concise and right to the point!

Well, that's their problem, isn't it?

They go around blowing themselves up murdering innocent people because their religion tells them to, then they look for the worst possible leaders to lead them into more killing.

calmObserver · 03-31-2008, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shiva_TD

...I'm not talking about the "roll over take it in the ass" diplomacy of Chamberlain which merely evaded dealing with Hitler but actually addressing the issues related to Hitler's Germany. Ignoring or evading a problem does not resolve the problem...

this one belongs in the class of; "we gave poland, and eastern europe to the commies" which i grew up hearing ad nauseum at the dinner table. later on i took to reading some history, and found out you can't give something you do not possess to someone, and never mind the reality they actually had possesion of eastern europe.

in reality chamberlain was bargaining for time, as the brits knew they did not have the military power to confront hitler. in particular he understood the need to improve britains air defenses.

calmObserver · 03-31-2008, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DamnYankee

Let the Arabs free themselves from Islam, dictators, and despots.

you are aware that we, the u.s.a, are the ones who help keep these "dictators, and despots" in power?

DamnYankee · 03-31-2008, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calmObserver

...in reality chamberlain was bargaining for time, as the brits knew they did not have the military power to confront hitler. in particular he understood the need to improve britains air defenses.

In reality Chamberlain was a wussy.

DamnYankee · 03-31-2008, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calmObserver

you are aware that we, the u.s.a, are the ones who help keep these "dictators, and despots" in power?

I don't remember ever having an election where Hamas was on the ballot.