AzTeK

You know, a lot of people like to bash both Bolivia and Venezuela for all sorts of reasons, but when it comes to some aspects of the democratic process, both countries are arguably even ahead of many other "civilised" countries. On a different article I'm not finding atm I also read that Hugo Chavez' proposed new constitution also included a possibility for the population to elect him out of office pretty much at any given time, but we all know the referendum on that constitution didn't pass.

President Morales agrees to Bolivian recall vote - AOL News

Evo Moralez, because of political differences with the opposition, is going to sign a senate-pledged proposal to run a recall election, which is a very risky business. Note that as in many other states, the president provides a check on the senate and Evo Moralez could just as well veto this measure.

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The Lying Dutchman

he's facing heavy weather at the moment. the Santa Cruz elite want independence because they dont want to be the ones 'paying' for the rest of the country. he has a long way to go..

GlobalSmiles

I don't get this sentence, but I will say Bolivia and Venezuela are both anti US regimes within a hemisphere that is generally pro US or at least indifferent to the US. This puts them in bad spots, but other then that I don' really care about eith of them.

Its funny you could call a guy who is trying to make himself president for life "democratic".


The students have staged several big marches in the centre of the capital, Caracas, which Mr Chávez's supporters consider to be their own territory. The student leaders say they want to press the parliament, the supreme court and the electoral authority to delay the referendum on the grounds that only a tiny minority of voters are familiar with the sweeping constitutional changes proposed.

The students' arguments chime with complaints from a segment of Mr Chávez's own supporters who have broken with him over the constitutional reform. These include Podemos, a small democratic socialist group, and Raúl Baduel, who stepped down as defence minister earlier this year and who as commander of the armoured division during the 2002 coup was instrumental in returning Mr Chávez to power. General Baduel and Podemos have both called for a “no” vote in the referendum. They argue that the constitutional changes hand more power to the president at the expense of the citizen, and that they are illegal since they should have been discussed by a Constituent Assembly, rather than the parliament. If the reform goes ahead, this would amount in practice to “a coup”, General Baduel said.

Venezuela | Challenging Chávez-for-life | Economist.com

choclosteve

Let's see, I think we were talking about the recall election in Bolivia. I think you got Chavez and Venezuela confused with Evo Morales , who is not running for president for life just yet. Further, Venezuela and Bolivia are members of a growing block of Central and South American left leaning democracies that includes in South America: Brazil, Argentina, Chili, Ecuador, Paraguay, Uruguay, and perhaps Peru, and prominant in Central America, Sandinista Daniel Ortega has now been elected president of Nicaragua. About the only good friends that we have left down there are Columbia and, on some things, Mexico. 7 years of Bush have not left US with lots of good will much of anywhere.

The Lying Dutchman

they are both democratically elected so it would be a contradiction if the people is pro-US or indifferent but at the same time their representation holds a radically different position.

oh and if a president tries to make himself president but asks the people for their consent than that is a democratic act on itself, regardless of the consequences.

GlobalSmiles

Its running for King for Life, to me that is decidedly undemocratic in nature. You embrace that kind of democracy, go right on ahead and embrace it.

I have read plenty about the area and we have pockets of anti-US sentiment that is still around from the cold war, but considering the large amount of good we have done for the area as a whole I would find it rather shocking if we were disdained by the majority of South Americans. They might not like or current administration but that is a far cry from disdaining the US as a whole.

GlobalSmiles

Horrible over simplification of relations world wide. We are not our president or any one entity or person, people know that. It may frustrate many, but is most definitely true.

choclosteve

Fortunately for me, my travel experiences tend to confirm that folk on a one to one basis tend to be most interested in my understanding and take on their problems with US, and do not blame me personally. Never the less, we have a bunch of left leaning folk, representing the poorer/and or repressed majority, coming to power in most of South America through the ballot box, and they are not as friendly or compliant to US interests as the previous US supported "dirty wars" right wing dictators.

GlobalSmiles

A horrible over simplification on their part as well. I'm not saying capitalism isn't in need of new PR campaign, it is, but that being said I doubt many of the understand the why's and probably more importantly the how's of our actions in South America.

We have tampered, but it was for our bloody survival, Noam Chomsky bullshit aside, spheres of influence were and still are very important.

Socialism is the new feudalism, right wingers such as I have to show why it is no better then the old feudal system. Anyways thats just my rant.

USSR supported dirty wars as well in the same region, communists still do. . .They were and still are counter productive to long term peace.

The Lying Dutchman

where did you read i embraced it? i stated that the act of asking the people for the consent on itself is a democratic act.

the US is no longer a realistic direction for latin-america. they share a bitter past and these sentiments have always been present in latin-american politics. china is improving trade relations with the pacific latin countries now, the perspective is changing.