If we want people to only immigrate through legal channels, then shouldn't we make it possible for them to do so?

Right now, for most people born in another country, there is NO legal route to immigration into the US. It's an utter crock to say that illegal immigrants should go home and then re-apply through legal routes because for the majority there are no legal routes.

Unless you are one of an elite group that has special skills, or unless you already have a family member legally here, there is no legal immigration route available to you.

We can't blame people for wanting to come here. But if the only available route is an illegal one, well, no wonder people take it. Our current immigration laws make no sense because they penalize those who obey them.

That's the whole in the "but it's illegal" argument. The simple solution to THAT is to repeal the laws that make it illegal. Truth is those people have other reasons to WANT it to be illegal.

My opinion: They're bigots. They think that other people's "inalienable rights" are different than their own because of location of birth. No more rational than race, creed, gender etc.

I think the answer is one that 'should' please everyone.

If anti-illegal proponents are truly against 'illegal immigration and have no problem with the 12-20 million being here legally, then what we should do is simply loosen up the old belt and allow more legal immigrants per year. This will increase the incentive to go through the channels.

However, we must at the same time decrease the incentive to come illegally, that is - enforce illegal employment laws on employers, decrease the amount of benefits that illegal immigrants may/may not be receiving, etc. This will further increase the incentive to not bypass the channels (which incidentally will have been made much more easier to go through).

From what I've read, we allow somewhere around a million in a year. What I would suggest is gradually upping the number to 3 million at the least. If people know it is easy to come legally and not worth it to bypass our channels, then won't that alieviate much of the problem on both sides of the aisle?

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"The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom."
Isaac Asimov

Hmm, fundamentally we seem to agree - though I will disagree on one point: It is fine, in my opinion, to have qualms about the legality of someone within a nations borders. It is reasonable to ask that people follow the channels that a respective nation asks of aspiring emigrants.

However, I will not quibble with you on the matter of how that argument is abused. The legality line is often (though not always) used as a blanket for a desire to get them out of the country and no change of policy otherwise. A quick way to help find out if this is the case (or at least get an honest discussion on the matter started) is to suggest upping the amount of legals allowed in per year. If legality is really the issue to them, what then should be the matter with allowing more in per year?

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"The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom."
Isaac Asimov

Bingo Hobbs! There are two ways into the country. legally and illegally. In the two ways there are pros and cons that differ in each situation, we have to shift the pros and cons in favor of legal entry. Through, mainly, making it easier, quicker, and more effiecent.

Yep and that is to not give preferential treatment to the "illegal" ones. Right now we are giving illegals open arms to come here illegally. Why go legal? It takes twice as long. Until we stop giving the illegals all the rights as natural born citizens this trend will continue.

I think this is missing the point. It does not take "twice as long" to go through the legal route. For most people it is "never in your lifetime". THAT is the barrier that makes the illegal route look so much more inviting.

You can set up all the barriers against illegal immigration that you want, but while there is NO legal route for most people then of course the illegal route is all they have left.

Um yeah, it does. There are people here who have been waiting for legal status for years.

Well if they were good people, they wouldnt break our nations rules regardless now would they?

What do you mean that there are no legal routes at all for most people? The only people that have no legal route are criminals.

Exactly the point.