if they don't sieze on this issue (illegal immigration) because it's a winner. A clear and sizeable majority of Americans fear they are losing their country and want vigorous action taken to stop the tide of illegals coming here. If the Republicans want to regain power, they need to tap into this sentiment and milk it for all its worth.

It's disingenuous to say "you can't deport 12 million illegals." Of course you can't. But dry up the jobs, and you don't need to. Stop the winking and tacit acceptance of the practice of hiring illegals, levy bankrupting fines on companies that hire them, send senior officials of those companies to prison for hard time, cut off public assistance to the illegals and stop educating their kids, and they will return home and the problem ceases to exist.

Problem is, Republicans won't do these things because they are too deep in the pockets of business special interests, who want their supply of cheap labor to continue unimpeded.

Did you watch the Republican debate last night? Who did you like best?

That guy Tancredo, I think he is the original border hawk, but he'll never get the nomination because you can't get the nomination running on just a single issue, IMO. It also takes other factors like "star power", charm, etc.

I wonder how much of the Republican base feels strongly about the border issue.

I didn't get to see the debates, but I heard that afterwards the commentators were talking about "who was most charming" and "who looked more like a president." WTF? Hou 'bout they discuss the issues that were being debated? It sounds like Joan and Mellisa Rivers were covering the debates.

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Neither am I the means to any end others may wish to accomplish. I am not a tool for their use. I am not a servant of their needs. I am not a bandage for their wounds. I am not a sacrifice on their altars. ... I owe nothing to my brothers, nor do I gather debts from them. I ask no one to live for me, nor do I live for others. I covet no mans soul, nor is my soul theirs to covet.

Ayn Rand, Anthem.

It might as well BE them for all the substance you get.

Like him or hate him, I think Chris Matthews is pretty good at analysis. Most of the rest of them are either clueless or have a personal agenda.

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Not a day goes by that I don't see something that reinforces my belief that people are idiots.

the base feels very strongly about it.

This is anecdotal, but it's telling. I work part time at a pharmacy. A month or so ago, a little old lady comes in, and has to get her prescriptions (3 or 4) a week at a time, because that's all she can afford. I strongly suspect she is underdosing her self to make them stretch. Minutes after her in comes this late-thirtyish/early fortyish big healthy-looking hispanic woman with about six kids. they scatter out all over the store and have their hands on and into everything (which I have to go after they leave to reset and reshelve) She and her husband/boyfriend make no attempt to control them. She orders half a dozen scrips--some of them I know to be expensive--and proceeds to loudly (and IMO, rudely) jabber in spanish with the guy she's with right in front of us while we are working. Then she picks up the scrips--probably $200 or more of prescription drugs--all with no copay, completely covered by our good ole government. Legal or not? She may be, but I doubt the guy was. He didn't seem to know a word of English.

There's something seriously wrong with this scenario.

Don't knowwho I'm going to back yet, Maybe Thompson, if he joins the field. I don't agree with Rudy about some things, but he's acceptable. Romney? I don't know. McCain? His unpredictability on the issues scares me.

I watched the whole debate. I think McCain and Romney came across the strongest. Giuiliani stood out like a sore thumb (IMO) as he consistently defended a woman's right to choose / states' rights in choosing whether it will be pro-choice or pro-life. Everyone else was firmly anti-abortion.

The entire debate was in a strange way, like those rapping free styles, IMO. It's all about being the most "thugged out" Republicans. Trying to appear the most hardcore in front of the base. That's just my interpretation of it though.


WEB

Well, personally I would be open to compromise and comprehensive immigration reform. I don't trust in extreme solutions (deportation) or cutting all the illegals off from their jobs. We should come up with a reasonable compromise. While I do think there might be some merit to what conservatives think about the issue, I also distrust border hawks and think they have some racial motivations against Latinos.

So, I'd be in favor of some compromise and some kind of REASONABLE solution. That's just me though.

As for the Republicans, I'd say that they all made some platitudes towards the illegal issue. I think only Tancredo really made that his forefront issue. The rest, I would consider "softies" (from your point of view) on the border issue.


WEB

however they may protest otherwise. I like the anglo culture I grew up in, and make no apologies for that. On the other hand, I have no problem with anyone legally coming here from anywhere who will commit without reservation their total allegiance to this country, and who has skills/knowledge that will benefit our society as a whole.

Maybe we need to make the immigration process less lengthy and bureacratically tortuous, but I am totally against anything that smells like amnesty for the 12 million or so illegals already in this country. In my opinion they are just criminals like any other lawbreaker, whatever their motives. The reasons this situation has been tolerated and winked at by both political parties are cynical and self-serving; the Republicans because they like depressing wages for working people and assuring their greedy-arse big-business cash cow buddies a continuous supply of cheap labor to fatten their profits; the Democrats because they want to fatten their voting rolls. IMO, anyone who thinks these people put in anything close to what it costs our system to educate their kids and what they milk from the system from government public assistance programs probably still believes in the tooth fairy.

If these people were serious about wanting to come here and contribute and assimilate, they wouldn't be marching demanding "rights" they have no legitimate claim to, and wouldn't be waving all those Mexican flags instead of the Star and Stripesin those rallies.

Whether based on racism (and I'm sure there's an element of that) or (in my case) belief in the principle of the rule of law, I seriously believe this issue is a winner for whichever party will latch onto it and demand much stricter enforcement and more deportations.

What would be my solution? No need to deport them. Dry up the jobs by levying massive, killer fines on companies that hire illegals, and mandate hard prison time for execs of such companies. Do that,and the illegals will go home and the problem disappears.

Hey WEB - long time, no see. I didn't get a chance to watch the debate, and I forgot to record it on my DVR. I'd be interested to get a quick summary from a reasonably moderate individual, if you feel like it. All I've heard so far is that there was a lot of sucking up to Reagan and a decent amount of bashing Bill Clinton...

Hey goodtrips, good to see you again. You know we have a lot of guys up in the tree house from another board. It's really too bad that they have never seen your best stuff. We're kind of like political forum connisseurs. There must be a way that we can post up your "classic put downs" on this forum somehow. lol

I can summarize the debate, sure.

OK, the debate was pathetic in one way, mainly that there were 10 Republicans, and thus 7 people who should have just got the f*ck out of there, ok maybe just 6. I think that having 6 faceless Republicans up there was a complete waste of time. All they needed were:

Romney
McCain
Giuliani
Tancredo

The rest, even after an hour and a half I still had no idea what their names were.

The debate was about who can kiss up to the base the most. McCain came across the best. Although he was doing his best to look animated, I thought he looked old, but still he had some life left in him. He made jokes and seemed personable. The rest were delivering their resume and delivering standard GOP positions.

Romney was impressive and showed that he has a good speaking demeanor and a very intriguing voice and personality. McCain said he would follow Bin Laden to hell, Giuliani said that Reagan stared down the mollahs (which is utter horseshit, since Reagan made a deal to give the mollahs weapons in exchange for the hostages) and Giulianni said that Iran must not be allowed to have nukes. Tancredo really sounded the drum on the border. Romney bashed Hillary and did a decent job of rationalizing his recent swing to the right in his NOW pro-life and anti-"socialized medicine" positions.

The main themes of the night was: taxes are too high, the US needs to promote cultural values (anti-abortion) and we must stop Iran.

The only thing I would say that was really noteworthy was that Giulianni seemed to stand out with his states right position on abortion, McCain stood out with position defending his "amnesty" record, Romney paved over his flip-flopping in a very smooth way. No one is gonna buy it though. I'd say McCain probably did the best.


WEB