What's your solution to illegal immigration in the United States? - Political Forum

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · 04-08-2007, 11:23 PM

We had a new protest in LA this weekend over illegal immigration. We have a possibility for Bush and the Democratic Congress to come to an agreement over illegal immigration.

Many people feel very strongly about this issue, as demonstarted by O'Reilly's outburst at Geraldo over the weekend over the issue. This could possibly be the biggest issue for the GOP base.

What are your solutions to the issue?

Thousands march in LA to protest immigration plan - The Boston Globe

Quote:

Thousands march in LA to protest immigration plan
By Peter Prengaman, Associated Press | April 8, 2007

LOS ANGELES -- Thousands of people marched through downtown yesterday, demanding a way for the country's estimated 12 million illegal immigrants to become citizens and condemning President Bush's latest proposal. Carrying signs saying "Amnesty Now," about 15,000 people danced to Mexican ranchera music and passed large American flags over their heads.

Organizers said many illegal immigrants were angry about a White House plan that would grant them work visas but require them to return home and pay thousands of dollars to become legal US residents. "Charging that much, Bush is going to be even more expensive than the coyotes," said protester Armando Garcia, 50, referring to smugglers who transport people across the Mexican border.

Alfredo Gonzalez, 33, an illegal immigrant from Mexico, marched with his wife and daughters, 6 and 8 years old. He said he fears the immigration raids occurring across the country. "If they kick me out, who is going to take care of my daughters? The government? I don't think so," he said. "We need full legalization and need it now."

Immigrant rights advocates say many of California's illegal immigrants feel betrayed by President Bush, who they had long considered an ally. "People are really upset," said Juan Jose Gutierrez, president of Los Angeles-based Latino Movement USA, one of several organizers of the rally. "For years, the president spoke in no uncertain terms about supporting immigration reform. . . . Then this kind of plan comes out and people are so frustrated."

The White House's draft plan, which was recently leaked, calls for a new "Z" visa that would allow illegal immigrant workers to apply for three-year work permits. They would be renewable indefinitely, but would cost $3,500 each time. To get a permit and become legal permanent residents, illegal immigrants would have to return to their home country, apply at a US embassy or consulate to reenter legally, and pay a $10,000 fine.

The proposal has been sharply criticized by Hispanic advocacy groups, Democrats, the Roman Catholic Church, and unions that have many immigrants in their ranks. They argue the cost of work permits and the green card application -- which could total more than $20,000 -- are prohibitive for low-wage earners. The plan is far more conservative than the one passed by the Senate last year with bipartisan backing and support from President Bush.

That plan would have allowed many of the country's estimated 12 million illegal immigrants to stay in the United States, work, and apply to become legal residents after learning English, pay small fines and back taxes, and clear a background check. Many conservatives in the Senate opposed that plan, and it failed to gain traction in the then Republican-controlled House, which at the end of 2005 passed the punitive immigration bill that angered immigrant communities and led to massive protests.

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · 04-08-2007, 11:25 PM

I would say that regardless of one's political position on the issue, the new Bush plan is a non-starter. People migrate here and get paid dirt cheap wages. They obviously cannot afford to pay $10,000 fines and $3,500 passes to work only for 3 years.

Try again.

FRYandBENDER · 04-09-2007, 08:13 AM

Here is my idea from another thread.

While I have no problem with letting people come to our country I think it should be highly regulated. I think that the federal governments only part in it should be to handle the paper work for the states and the states should be the ones who accept people, assign them jobs, tax them, and send them back. Well to sum it up better here is the run down on how I would like to fix the mexican invasion problem.

1) Tell the mexican government that if they do not go along with the plan we will start doing our damnedest to deport every illegal we find and any financial help that we give them will be cut off.

2) Assuming the mexican government decides to play nice, we (through their gov.) set up offices where mexicans can sign up for work in the US. Their names are assigned to an account with a list of their skills.

3) Employers who need the labor go to the state, who is in charge of keeping up with who in their state and what they are doing, and gives them a description of what kind of workers they need. Construction, yard work, etc. The state takes the employers info to the fed who has a copy of the paperwork that is provided by the mexican gov. The workers are contacted and perhaps with the help of the mexican and US governments arrive at the city where they are needed.

4) When a business hires a documented worker (that word looks funny with out the un in front of it) they have to pay the worker more than the would a US citizen and that extra money goes to recoup any expenses that come about like transporting them to and from mexico, temporary housing, etc. Also, this will allow Amercan workers a chance to compete and not be undercut by illegals who are willing to work for less.

5) The illegals who are here will be responsible for returning to mexico and signing up to come back legally. I'm not even opposed to the idea of them being able to sign up in the US, but only for those who sign up first. If an immigrant is found that has not signed up and is still here illegally will be deported with no questions asked along with any family members they have with them regardless of whether or not they have children who were born here. Once a person has disregarded the rules ONCE, they are then prohibited from coming back. We are trying to help them out and we will not tolerate any bullshit. The mexican government will also have to agree to inprison anyone who is caught here illegally twice.

6) The workers are allowed to stay here for 6 months, maybe a year or more, I'm not sure what a good time period would be, and once their time is up, they are exchanged with another worker that has been on a waiting list so that they will have an opportunity to make some money.

7) If the worker sends money back to mexico it gets taxed. If the worker actually keeps the money in this country, pays taxes, etc. they will have a chance of becoming a US citizen. Maybe after having worked for two rotations without sending money to mexico.

Tell me what you think. Is this a reasonable compromise?

Ygorl · 04-09-2007, 11:35 AM

1. Ship ALL illegals back to their country of origin.

2. Completely stop awarding ANY illegal access to ANY entitlements (welfare, free heathcare etc.)

3. Anyone caught employing illegals will have their business license pulled OR be fined a gigantic amount.

4. Illegals here and pregnant cannot give birth to a child here and have that child awarded citizenship. If they're here illegally, they ALL get shipped back to their country of origin.

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · 04-09-2007, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRYandBENDER

Tell me what you think. Is this a reasonable compromise?

Well, the first thing that stood out for me, was the taxes on money they sent back to Mexico. Illegals are already making dirt cheap wages, living like 10 people in a room, working the crappiest jobs at the lowest wages, and you want to pose an additional tax on them?

I don't like a lot of these proposals that just treat this as purely a business proposition with no mention of citizenship and then make the business aspect of it, extremely taxing on the illegals. How can one even survive on those kinds of wages?

I don't like the idea of states handling immigration (as opposed to the fed). I guess it's possible, but if so, then it appears to be a pure guest immigrant program without the possibility of citizenship. Citizenship is national, not a state issue.

presluc · 04-09-2007, 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.E.B. Du Bois

We had a new protest in LA this weekend over illegal immigration. We have a possibility for Bush and the Democratic Congress to come to an agreement over illegal immigration.

Many people feel very strongly about this issue, as demonstarted by O'Reilly's outburst at Geraldo over the weekend over the issue. This could possibly be the biggest issue for the GOP base.

What are your solutions to the issue?

Thousands march in LA to protest immigration plan - The Boston Globe

Well at least they had more U.S. flags this time. lol

presluc · 04-09-2007, 12:55 PM

One other thing if bordering states have differant proposals
That could be a problem for state, local, and fed governments.

FRYandBENDER · 04-09-2007, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.E.B. Du Bois

Well, the first thing that stood out for me, was the taxes on money they sent back to Mexico. Illegals are already making dirt cheap wages, living like 10 people in a room, working the crappiest jobs at the lowest wages, and you want to pose an additional tax on them?

4) When a business hires a documented worker (that word looks funny with out the un in front of it) they have to pay the worker more than the would a US citizen and that extra money goes to recoup any expenses that come about like transporting them to and from mexico, temporary housing, etc.

Quote:

I don't like a lot of these proposals that just treat this as purely a business proposition with no mention of citizenship and then make the business aspect of it, extremely taxing on the illegals. How can one even survive on those kinds of wages?

7) If the worker sends money back to mexico it gets taxed. If the worker actually keeps the money in this country, pays taxes, etc. they will have a chance of becoming a US citizen. Maybe after having worked for two rotations without sending money to mexico.

Quote:

I don't like the idea of states handling immigration (as opposed to the fed). I guess it's possible, but if so, then it appears to be a pure guest immigrant program without the possibility of citizenship. Citizenship is national, not a state issue.

If the US handled more of it's enterprises like actual businesses, I don't think we would have the ineffecient bullshit government that we have now.

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · 04-09-2007, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRYandBENDER

4) When a business hires a documented worker (that word looks funny with out the un in front of it) they have to pay the worker more than the would a US citizen and that extra money goes to recoup any expenses that come about like transporting them to and from mexico, temporary housing, etc.

I don't really see it that way. The business has the choice of hiring a Mexican immigrant or hiring a US native. I find it highly unlikely that the business pays for the travel expenses of the immigrant. The immigrant comes here on his own dime. Same for housing, entirely paid by the immigrant. How do you figure the employers have been or will be paying for this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by FRYandBENDER

7) If the worker sends money back to mexico it gets taxed. If the worker actually keeps the money in this country, pays taxes, etc. they will have a chance of becoming a US citizen. Maybe after having worked for two rotations without sending money to mexico.

Let me ask you this. What should our policy be on citizenship? The reason we have this whole illegal mess, is because we have two contrasting things going on:

(1) An unsecured border, and many people who are looking for cheap labor

(2) We don't grant citizenship to cheap labor

So these two contradictory conditions is the root of the problem. So, one of those three things has to be addressed. (1) Secure the border, (2) somehow eliminate people's demand for cheap labor, (3) or grant citizenship to cheap labor.

FRYandBENDER · 04-09-2007, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.E.B. Du Bois

I don't really see it that way. The business has the choice of hiring a Mexican immigrant or hiring a US native. I find it highly unlikely that the business pays for the travel expenses of the immigrant. The immigrant comes here on his own dime. Same for housing, entirely paid by the immigrant. How do you figure the employers have been or will be paying for this?

It is just an idea. When they come over here illegally they usually don't have a car. Their either carried here by coyotes or they walk. If we are going to be keeping up with their paperwork, helping them get to their job sites when the employer needs them and maybe setting them up with a place to live before they get their feet on the ground I think they should pay for it. Let say the employer has to pay them $2.00 more an hour than a citizen, and then we take that $2.00. If you have 10 million people working 40 hours a week, that would be $2.00/hour x 40 = $80.00 x 10,000,000 = $800,000,000. That would be a shit load of money to help pay for all of this. Hell, we'd probably have some left over. Just think if we had 20 million workers paying in. If the employer doesn't want to pay an extra $2.00/hour, then they can hire citizens.

Quote:

Let me ask you this. What should our policy be on citizenship? The reason we have this whole illegal mess, is because we have two contrasting things going on:

(1) An unsecured border, and many people who are looking for cheap labor

(2) We don't grant citizenship to cheap labor

So these two contradictory conditions is the root of the problem. So, one of those three things has to be addressed. (1) Secure the border, (2) somehow eliminate people's demand for cheap labor, (3) or grant citizenship to cheap labor.

I think that if they want to play by the rules, then we can help them out. I think that if they get caught illegally more than once, then their window is closed and they can fuck themselves.