Grez

First, and I think pretty much all agree that we have to first and foremost, close the border and make it secure. No sense in trying to clear out a bathtub full of water when there is a constant leak of water into it, its neverending.

Lots of people talk about how hard the decision is of what to do with all the current illegal immigrants: do we deport them all and can we even find them? Do we give them amnesty? Do we make a guest worker program?

This is all just futile to me. We can't find them all and we can't just grant them amnesty. So this is what needs to be done: (after actually securing the border first)

1. We actually enforce the law, but obviously has to be worse. We punish any company that hires an illegal immigrant bigtime. Not some petty fine that may or may not ever actually happen. We make it a stiff penalty the first time (with a warning first of course that checks will be made). The second violation shuts them down for good. Believe me, this will make most any company not take the risk if they will be done for. This may take time to do checks, but we start in the hot spots first (i.e. sanctuary cities) after some actual enforcements have been made, we make major progress. Eventually it fixes itself

2. Illegals now have no work, they leave. We now open up many jobs for unemployed Americans. Ok, so these are the jobs that "Americans" don't want to do right? Well, I have solution for that. Anyone that is able to work must or they won't get medicaid (only children will get it if needed) Medicaid should really only be for the physically and mentally disabled, elderly, temporarily laid off and children of lower income families. Right now there is no incentive for Medicaid recipients to get a minimum wage job.

3. For any stragglers, their children are not automatic citizens. The parents have to be citizens first. Otherwise, after the child is born and initial post birth care is given, they are all deported after the needed care.

End of Illegal Immigration.

pedex

you do realize don't you that many illegals have legit fake ID's don't you?

birth certificates are available to ANYONE, here locally they cost $16.50, this is the first loophole

the second loophole is that the govt does not cross check SS#'s and death certificates when you get them from out of state, and employers don't check this either, neither does the IRS most of the time and by the time they do, its too late

the third loophole is that ID info is easily obtained, not too hard even in this day and age to find someone thru some old obituaries that has died without a SS# or better yet and what is often done is you just assume someone else's SS#

the 4th loophole which is gradually being closed right now is ID info is a matter of public record anytime you interact with the govt--you get a speeding ticket and your SS# is on it, you get divorced and your financial info is on it, you buy a house and your mortgage info is freely available to the public

part of my job involves tracking people thru public records, you can't hide but you also really can't protect yourself from ID theft either

until this is fixed you are not going to stop illegals from getting work or getting hired

our borders, our airports, almost 99% of our security is handled by low wage workers with little training and often cursory background checks, yes it is amazingly easy for a terrorist to get a job at an airport with direct access to aircraft even in this day and age

birth certificate and SS# and you can get everything else, this is not difficult and there are no checks stopping people from doing this

gotta love the post 9/11 response by the Bush admin huh?

our police aren't any better, two weeks ago I was tasked with doing the prelim work on a skip trace, this guy had an open warrant for his arrest for multiple felonies, well the police never got off their butts and really tried to find him, well he also had an outstanding traffic ticket and the dumbass put his real address on it----bad move, I went and checked it out, ya he lives there, the PI I work for gave the bondsman a call and he went and grabbed this guy

the devil is in the details and our govt ignores them most of the time, this is why immigration is such a problem, people simply not doing their jobs

Grez

I realize it, and its all part of the actually enforcing the law part. Its not that hard if we don't turn our head.

mdPF

All candidates fail when the question comes up about the illegal immigration. There isn't any candidate that would say "No more this crap", this ain't working.

Clinton says that immigrants will need to learn english - impossible. Many of them never gonna learn. Some know already, but many of them don't and never will. It's a fact.

Granting "Z" Visas? Bush Guest Worker program? Same as granting the amnesty because it leads to Green Card > Citizenship.

Go home and get back legally? Forget it, its not happening. How would you expect millions to leave? What a stupid idea.

So, what the heck are they talking about? You either grant an amnesty or DO nothing. Make a strict laws and they will leave volunteerly. Many of them are leaving now because of the economy issues. We would see a significant decrease in 10 years.

There is no way to deport all the immigrants, you have to leave as it is (enforce the laws) or grant an omnesty. All they do is to talk about some crap ideas which leads to amnesty, but they don't want to admit that blatantly.

The lesson was not learned in '86, so let it go. Glad that Bush bill never got passed.

emptypepsi

Thread re-located to appropriate forum: Immigration.

__________________
"The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom."
Isaac Asimov

http://www.politicsforumpoliticalwor...ion-forum-rule

emptypepsi

In my opinion, using money on enforcing laws on illegal-immigrant employers (taking away the illegal jobs) would do much of the work for us that a mass deportation would not be needed for. At the same time, we must reform our current immigration system to meet 21st Century needs. If that means allowing more legal immigrants in a year, we should not remove it from the table.

__________________
"The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom."
Isaac Asimov

http://www.politicsforumpoliticalwor...ion-forum-rule

rogue

Taking away the magnets that draw the illegals here in the first place is the only way to really stop the illegal Mexican invasion. Dry up the jobs for illegals and they don't have a reason to come in the first place OR for the ones already here to stay.

Shiva_TD

Let's consider this option.

So, who's going to do the work? About 6 million of the illegal immigrants are doing jobs that Americans won't do. Do we not pick the apples or harvest the food that must be hand-picked? Do we not have the menial jobs performed? Do we just shut down those businesses?

Of course with 80% of all jobs being from small business that don't have the resources to check on whether documents are legal or not we can't hold them accountable of an illegal is working for them and the large companies really don't hire illegal immigrants.

So you have two problems with your idea. No one to do the work if you succeed and no way to hold small business owners accountable because they hire people in good faith.

rogue

Ah, spoken like a small business owner employer of illegal aliens. There are actually NO jobs that Americans won't do. More accurately, there are jobs that Americans won't do for the pay that YOU want to pay them. That same pay that desperate illegals WILL work for. You're personally lining YOUR pockets with this cheap labor and paying NO benefits, while at the same time this cheap labor is being subsidized by the American taxpayers who pick up the tab for free social services, free medical, free education, incarceration, etc.

As more and more states start passing tough on illegals laws that remove the business licenses of small business owners who are repeat offenders of hiring illegals, do YOU think that YOU might become a user of the e-verify system?

Grez

If you read the initial post, there will be many opportunities for people to take up these jobs. If someone is unemployed, not physically or mentally disabled, elderly, or a child, they have to work or they don't get govt money. (of course if you get laid off, not fired, you will have a temporary grace period to find a job.) The businesses will have to pay at least minimum wage. That solves the problem of no one to work. And as the previous poster stated, if we make the e-verify system up to date and accurate, it could be readily accessible for all employers.