State Sovereignty - Political Forum

Brother Oz · 01-06-2007, 01:09 PM

Since the treaty of Westphalia in 1648, international politics has been based on the idea of State Sovereignty, that you shouldn't interfere with the internal affairs of other countries unless they ask you to. But in recent years this concept has been eroded, with the US and European involvement in the Yugoslav civil war, and the idea that AU peacekeepers should be sent to Sudan although the government doesn't want them there. To what extent do you think states should be sovereign within their own territory, if at all?

Troianii · 01-07-2007, 06:30 PM

Well, if state a is the meddler but has a signifigant interest in the affairs state b, then state a has good enough reason to meddle. In todays world, doesn't everyone have a signifigant interest in everyone elses?

Brother Oz · 01-08-2007, 07:56 AM

But do we want other states to meddle in our internal affairs?

Daewoo · 01-08-2007, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Oz

But do we want other states to meddle in our internal affairs?

You need to apply the double standard if you want this to make any sense at all.

People go to jail in the US for accepting campaign controbutions from the chinese and it strains relationships between the 2 nations because of their unacceptable meddling.

On the other hand, we help carry off a coup in venezuela, and that is 100% OK, because that was US.

francois60 · 01-08-2007, 10:46 AM

I would say that sovereignty is based on the will of the people. A state run by a dictator is not sovereign, especially if that dictator rules as a proxy of another state, which is the case with 90% of dictators.

The Treaty of Westphalia is an outdated concept, a very European concept, that needs to be abandoned. While the international community should never intervene in the internal affairs of a democratic state, where the people are free to deliberate their future, there is nothing wrong with intervening against dictators bent on oppressing and killing their people.

Brother Oz · 01-08-2007, 10:54 AM

Yes, that's what I feel. There is a problem with defining democracy though. Most dictators hold rigged elections after all.

francois60 · 01-08-2007, 11:41 AM

Democracy is difficult to define, but you know it when you see it. Since the UN is an arbitrary body as it is, there really isn't a need to define anything.

Troianii · 01-09-2007, 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Oz

But do we want other states to meddle in our internal affairs?

Sometimes, yes. Sometimes we're divided on it. Either way, is it OUR choice for them to meddle in our affairs?

We have a right to deal with our own affairs because it is our business and we have an inherent interest in our affairs. As soon as the same as true of our affairs for others, they have the right to step in, almost if not as much as we do. Whether we want them to is irrelevant.

Brother Oz · 01-09-2007, 05:05 PM

But doesn't that give free reign to dictators to come into our country and shoot people?

francois60 · 01-09-2007, 05:17 PM

Well, if our President decides that he wants to commit genocide against blue staters, I'd want other countries to poke their noses into our business.