emptypepsi

http://www.fda.gov/OHRMS/DOCKETS/98f...80-gld0001.pdf

The FDA is pushing to have herbs, supplements, and even items like raw vegetable juice regulated like drugs. This is ridiculous, in my opinion. The government has no right to intervene here.

Your thoughts?

More on the topic -- Health freedom action alert: FDA attempting to regulate supplements, herbs and juices as "drugs"

Funny, in the document it lists that Vitamin store owners may be punished for "practicing medicine without a license", yet Doctors do not take nutrition courses in any notable way during Med School.

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"The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom."
Isaac Asimov

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Ygorl

This will go nowhere.

People will not stand for it.

This kind of crap has been being pushed by the Fuckedup Dimwit Administration for awhile and they continue, and WILL continue meeting very stiff resistance.

Are we starting to see why our govt., or ANY govt., is not to be trusted when it comes to issues of peoples health ?

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Why do liberals oppose capitalism except when it produces or promotes perversions and/or degeneracy ?

perdidochas

I think you misread the part about raw vegetable juice. The only thing they mentioned was that it should be regulated just like any other food. Basic sanitary standards, etc.

I see both sides of this issue. On one hand, I see that the snake oil (i.e. the alternative medicine) salesmen don't want to be regulated. I don't blame them. Actually having to prove things work, and being responsible for safety standards is hard work.

On the other hand, I see government meddling.




My problem is that most "alternative" medicine is not scientifically based. I have to way my anti-quack views with my anti-large government views.
Right now, I err on side of my anti-quack views. Alternative medicine is primarily quackery. Heck, some of it is downright anti-scientific. I honestly don't see how "homeopathic" medicine is allowed to be taught, based on anti-fraud laws. There is no physical way that it can work.

__________________
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
— Robert Heinlein, Time Enough for Love

Ygorl

This is actually not true. Some of it isn't some of it IS. A consumer needs to really research some things very well before he/she decides to go EITHER (dr./fda approved "medicine" OR "alternative"/preventative care) way.

FDA approved chemicals can (and have recently been shown to be) be just as dangerous as some of the alternatives.

I don't care for quackery either. I found THIS site:

Quackwatch

because someone I know was telling me the wonders of a vitamin called B17 (there's no such thing) that can be gotten out of the pits of some fruits like peaches etc.

Many tools one can use to decide what is quackery and what is NOT.

Unfortunately, the FDA is beyond questioning for most of us.

I don't trust them because they're about $$ and only about $$.

They're just as quackish today as are the alternative medicine people.

__________________
Why do liberals oppose capitalism except when it produces or promotes perversions and/or degeneracy ?

perdidochas

My contention is that most alternatives aren't dangerous, they are just fraudulent. Snake oil hurt nothing but people's pocketbooks.

Modern medicine is pretty damned good. My life has been made a lot better by it.

__________________
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
— Robert Heinlein, Time Enough for Love

Ygorl

Yes, and you can say and beleive that if you'd like.

It's not TRUE, but I won't tell you what to believe

What IS an "alternative" ?

Some "alternatives" (like vitamin B17) ARE snake oil and bullshit. This doesn't mean that they're all fraudulent. They simply are NOT. Many of the so called "alternatives" are USED in modern medicine in ways.

By modern MEDICINE or by modern surgical procedures ?

My life has only been made better (saved really) by modern surgical procedures. Modern medicine played a small ROLE but not the most critical role.

__________________
Why do liberals oppose capitalism except when it produces or promotes perversions and/or degeneracy ?

perdidochas

First of all, homeopathy is total quackery. All of it should be banned, or at least have warning labels like: "This product has no properties that will or even could possibly have an effect. You are wasting your money."

A lot of the rest is just unproven trends. In 6 months, they will be ignored again.

If it does have real effects, then the people who support it should set up their own scientific trials. It's not that hard to set up a simple double blind study.


Medicine. Antibiotics have killed off several cases of strep throat and sinus infections. I am currently taking medicine for acid reflux, that have greatly enhanced my quality of life (I'm no longer clutching my chest). Modern medicines are a good thing. I've never had a needed surgery.

__________________
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
— Robert Heinlein, Time Enough for Love

emptypepsi

If it was true quackery then it would have been discovered long ago and put the homeopathic and supplement business into the ground. And besides, if people buy it - shouldn't that be their freedom? Why should the FDA have to regulate it and meddle in this? To protect people from buying something that is, at worst, a 'waste of money'? The government is sufficiently bloated as it is. Should they also regulate everything else that THEY perceive to be a waste of money? Hmmm...yes, the true essence of liberty espoused - trust us, the [insert government agency here]! I say people are smart enough to make up their own minds and learn from their own mistakes.

I personally do not take many herbs or supplements, aside from a few Mineral and Vitamins supplementations, and I keep some Oil of Oregano in the house, but I would certainly like business owners and companies to sell what they want if they choose without the FDA sticking it's nose in on everything. If it's such "quackery and a waste of money", then what do people have to be afraid of? There is no need for the government here, just as there is no need for them to ban Trans-fats in the name of "safety" and their implicit "war on obesity".

What of Vitamins/Minerals (which are part of this legislation, BTW)? are they quackery science as well?

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"The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom."
Isaac Asimov

http://www.politicsforumpoliticalwor...ion-forum-rule

Ygorl

I guess I'm having trouble with what you're saying, more because you include things that I'm not sure you mean to include.

For instance, you say:

First of all, homeopathy is total quackery.

I guess I need to understand what you MEAN by "homeopathy" when you call it total quackery. If you mean the ENTIRE supplement business, you're including substances like ascorbic acid (vitamin C).

If vitamin C is not necessary and only part of the homeopathy system of quackery maybe you could prove to me that it ISN'T necessary ?

Try living for 6 months with NO vitamin C.

__________________
Why do liberals oppose capitalism except when it produces or promotes perversions and/or degeneracy ?

perdidochas

Homeopathy has been proven a fraud, or more specifically, no proof can be showed that it has any basis in fact:

NCAHF Position Paper on Homeopathy

It's fraud. I have no problem with people buying it. It's the sellers that I have the problem with. There should be no freedom to con people.

You must not know many people.....

Trans-fats are an industrial product. Of course they can be regulated.


No, they work, and they need to be labeled for safety and have standards for their manufacture. If this could be an industry thing, that would be ok.

__________________
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
— Robert Heinlein, Time Enough for Love