apawllo

Nationalism, to me, is sort of a double-edged sword. In the United States for example, after 9/11 we came together as a nation to supported the families of fallen without question. Likewise, every American seems to support the troops to some degree which I think is great. On the other hand, when America faces a potential crisis situation, it seems to me that nationalism can sometimes result in group think and the collective willingness to put non-American civilians at risk (especially if they're not citizens of allies or a nation that could present a military threat) in order to protect American interests. I've just used the United States as an example because it's what I've experienced throughout my life, but where do we draw the line here? In what situations is it appropriate/acceptable to kill innocent people on the national stage? When should nationalism trump humanism and when should humanism take precedence over nationalism?

Sotired

define what you call humanism

apawllo

viewing all people as equals regardless of race, nationality, gender, sexuality, religion, etc.

Sotired

that is such a pie in the sky definition ,

race is a given , it always holds , gender too , religion as long as no one is using it for an excuse to be a terrorist as well

sexuality and nationality are problematic

nationality as in a person comes from a country yes ,
but nationality a person acting in the interests of a nation that is rogue or at war , no

sexual preference if it is a persons right to be of one or the other sure

but if it is a person trying to use their choice of sexual partner to act as a legitimate minority or change law etc, no



there really should be no conflict with nationalism except possibly in those cases noted

apawllo

Well, this thread is intended to focus on the nationality aspect obviously....and as you said there are conflicts there. Remember, we're talking about international issues here, not domestic issues. Not just concerning war or killing I suppose, but economic issues as well. For example, people in developed nations are far better off than those in third world nations, but we don't question that. Many Americans (once again, just using this example because it's what I know) simply stress the fact that we need to stay on top in the world militarily and economically. While we have an obesity epidemic, many in the third world are starving....once again we don't question that. From a military standpoint, some Americans accept pre-emptive war even if it will put other innocent humans at risk or undoubtedly will kill them as long as it is intended to protect American interests.

Brother Oz

I don't think nationalism should trump at all. What makes American citizens (or those of any other country) more important than the rest?
It also hurts you in the long term, as foreign countries consider yours selfish, and with a country like America that tries to stand for freedom and liberty, it makes you look like hypocrites.

__________________
... I am surprised at your insolence in writing to me at all. You know, as I know, that I bought this constituency... may God's curse light upon you and may it make your women as open and as free to the excise officers as your wives and daughters have always been to me while I have represented your scoundrel corporation.
I have the honour to be... your obliged humble servant, Anthony Henley
- MPs reply to constituent, mid 1700s

Sotired

I for one have no interest in being a part of a NAU ( newworld version of the EU)
nor do i think that a one world government is inevitable or desirable.

so if you are working from that train of thought

then I would say nationalism should trump all .

apawllo

Well, what exactly is an American? You hear it all the time, but we're simply a collection of other nationalities. If you go back just a number of generations there were no Americans and our families are presently in all corners of the world. There are Americans with families all across the Middle East, Europe, Asia, Africa, etc. So, I guess my question for you is, where exactly does American nationalism come from? We see the flag, we say the pledge and we're expected to defend the United States to the death to preserve the interests of our leadership over the rest of the world when in fact our families inhabit these nations. Where is the logic here?

Sotired

actually , you can go back to the end of any recorded history and my family was here .

American nationalism comes from the freedom we have , from the morals that the majority of us still have even though the liberals and the media/ movies / tv would have you believe we are all secular humanists.
the standard of living which we as a nation hold and have held because we as a nation of people hold our rights and freedoms sacred .

and because we do not want to lower our nation's standards to that of the rest of the world's.


you asked and I answered honestly

apawllo

I see where you're coming from. I have ancestors that fought on either side of the Civil War....we have a rich history here. But at the same time I have ancestors from Germany, Poland, England, and Ireland that I know of....and who knows where their children could be now. The fact is, the entire globe is a system and we're all connected in some way. Turning American nationalist feelings into a war to defend our country is one thing, but doing so in order to expand our empire is appalling - the same goes for any other nation. All we're doing is killing our families and fellow humans to expand our power - this is precisely why our "nation's standards" are higher than those of other nations. It's my personal belief that American nationalism should be kept more in check than it is, and Americans should hone that endless amount of pride toward their communities.