Climate change - Page 7 - Political Forum

Bartholomew Roberts · 05-03-2008, 06:18 PM

Global Climate Change is hogwash. it is happening, but it's not being caused by people.

The reason there are people that think we are causing it is because of the natural arrogance of human beings. We used to "know" the earth was the center of the universe. We used to "know" that the best way to cure a disease was to bleed someone. Now we claim to know that humans are causing Global Climate change. The truth is that humans don't know anything, and the sooner we accept that and stop passing environmental regulations that hurt our economy, the better.

chocchip · 05-03-2008, 06:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartholomew Roberts

Global Climate Change is hogwash. it is happening, but it's not being caused by people.

Most people I have spoken to seem to say climate change is happening because of us humans... We should've done this... should've done that...

Why do you think its happening?

Bartholomew Roberts · 05-04-2008, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chocchip

Why do you think its happening?

Because the world naturally goes through a cycle of heating and cooling phases. All throughout history we have found proof that the earth has heated and cooled, switching between heat waves and Ice Ages. Many people claim that we can tell humans are causing this because of how "abnormally rapid" the temperatures are rising, but really they are not rising anywhere near as rapidly as people claim. The main reason for the false idea that temps are rising quickly is demostrated by this image:

These are two pictures of temperature taking stations whose data is used in determining heating trends. The top shows a well placed temperature station. The bottom shows one that has been poorly placed, and thus gives false information. Look at the difference in the charts.
The problem is that there are tons of these inappropriately placed stations all around the world that are having measurements skewed by the fact that they are next to blacktop parking lots and A/C vents.
As for increased CO2 levels, humans have indeed contributed to that. Fortunately for us, most scientists are in agreement that human produced CO2 makes up only 20% of the CO2 in the atmosphere. On top of that, CO2 only makes up less than 2% of greenhouse gasses in our atmosphere. It is accompanied in great quantity by methane, and both Methane and CO2 are totally eclipsed by H2O (that's right, water vapor) at a whopping 98% of greenhouse gasses.
CO2 is NOT a major greenhouse gas, and thus it can be concluded that humans have little effect on global temperatures. The real reason temperatures are rising is because of a mini Ice Age that occured in the 1800s. The Earth cooled down very rapidly, and it is still heating back up, thus resulting in the slight increase in temperatures that we can be sure has happened.
In addition to this, the viking spacecraft took measurements of Mars' temperature when it passed by in the 1970s, and susbequent measurements have shown that since then, temperatures on Mars have risen approximately 1 degree Farenheit, exactly the same as the Earth has, and I think we can all agree that humans are not causing Mars to get warmer.

In case you question my sources for this, all my information comes from the CATO Institute and well known and respected scientists like Richard Lindzen (Prof. of Meteorology at MIT), Sallie Baliunas (an Astrophysicist from Harvard), and Fred Singer (a leading Climate Physicist).

catawba · 05-21-2008, 01:53 AM

[quote=Bartholomew Roberts;176478]Because the world naturally goes through a cycle of heating and cooling phases. All throughout history we have found proof that the earth has heated and cooled, switching between heat waves and Ice Ages. Many people claim that we can tell humans are causing this because of how "abnormally rapid" the temperatures are rising, but really they are not rising anywhere near as rapidly as people claim. The main reason for the false idea that temps are rising quickly is demostrated by this image:

These are two pictures of temperature taking stations whose data is used in determining heating trends. The top shows a well placed temperature station. The bottom shows one that has been poorly placed, and thus gives false information. Look at the difference in the charts.
The problem is that there are tons of these inappropriately placed stations all around the world that are having measurements skewed by the fact that they are next to blacktop parking lots and A/C vents.
As for increased CO2 levels, humans have indeed contributed to that. Fortunately for us, most scientists are in agreement that human produced CO2 makes up only 20% of the CO2 in the atmosphere. On top of that, CO2 only makes up less than 2% of greenhouse gasses in our atmosphere. It is accompanied in great quantity by methane, and both Methane and CO2 are totally eclipsed by H2O (that's right, water vapor) at a whopping 98% of greenhouse gasses.
CO2 is NOT a major greenhouse gas, and thus it can be concluded that humans have little effect on global temperatures. The real reason temperatures are rising is because of a mini Ice Age that occured in the 1800s. The Earth cooled down very rapidly, and it is still heating back up, thus resulting in the slight increase in temperatures that we can be sure has happened.
In addition to this, the viking spacecraft took measurements of Mars' temperature when it passed by in the 1970s, and susbequent measurements have shown that since then, temperatures on Mars have risen approximately 1 degree Farenheit, exactly the same as the Earth has, and I think we can all agree that humans are not causing Mars to get warmer.

In case you question my sources for this, all my information comes from the CATO Institute and well known and respected scientists like Richard Lindzen (Prof. of Meteorology at MIT), Sallie Baliunas (an Astrophysicist from Harvard), and Fred Singer (a leading Climate Physicist).[/QUOTE

This is one of the more absurd posts I have seen to dispute climate change. How do you explain the ice cores dating back for thousand of years that show the rise in earth temperatures that are completely outside the range of cyclic changes that have occurred historically? Sure there are some (a minority) of scientists that disagree. Some people think the world is flat. If you do your research, you will know that a majority of scientists agree that climate change is being caused by humans. Here's a place to start - Global warming controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

TheHat · 05-21-2008, 09:44 AM

[quote=catawba;182119]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bartholomew Roberts

Because the world naturally goes through a cycle of heating and cooling phases. All throughout history we have found proof that the earth has heated and cooled, switching between heat waves and Ice Ages. Many people claim that we can tell humans are causing this because of how "abnormally rapid" the temperatures are rising, but really they are not rising anywhere near as rapidly as people claim. The main reason for the false idea that temps are rising quickly is demostrated by this image:

These are two pictures of temperature taking stations whose data is used in determining heating trends. The top shows a well placed temperature station. The bottom shows one that has been poorly placed, and thus gives false information. Look at the difference in the charts.
The problem is that there are tons of these inappropriately placed stations all around the world that are having measurements skewed by the fact that they are next to blacktop parking lots and A/C vents.
As for increased CO2 levels, humans have indeed contributed to that. Fortunately for us, most scientists are in agreement that human produced CO2 makes up only 20% of the CO2 in the atmosphere. On top of that, CO2 only makes up less than 2% of greenhouse gasses in our atmosphere. It is accompanied in great quantity by methane, and both Methane and CO2 are totally eclipsed by H2O (that's right, water vapor) at a whopping 98% of greenhouse gasses.
CO2 is NOT a major greenhouse gas, and thus it can be concluded that humans have little effect on global temperatures. The real reason temperatures are rising is because of a mini Ice Age that occured in the 1800s. The Earth cooled down very rapidly, and it is still heating back up, thus resulting in the slight increase in temperatures that we can be sure has happened.
In addition to this, the viking spacecraft took measurements of Mars' temperature when it passed by in the 1970s, and susbequent measurements have shown that since then, temperatures on Mars have risen approximately 1 degree Farenheit, exactly the same as the Earth has, and I think we can all agree that humans are not causing Mars to get warmer.

In case you question my sources for this, all my information comes from the CATO Institute and well known and respected scientists like Richard Lindzen (Prof. of Meteorology at MIT), Sallie Baliunas (an Astrophysicist from Harvard), and Fred Singer (a leading Climate Physicist).[/QUOTE

This is one of the more absurd posts I have seen to dispute climate change. How do you explain the ice cores dating back for thousand of years that show the rise in earth temperatures that are completely outside the range of cyclic changes that have occurred historically? Sure there are some (a minority) of scientists that disagree. Some people think the world is flat. If you do your research, you will know that a majority of scientists agree that climate change is being caused by humans. Here's a place to start - Global warming controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

No actually it is pretty well placed. You just seem to tell people they are absurd b/c you dont agree with their facts and the people or links they provide. Did you check his sources out? Or are you ignoring them?

I will say it again, Greenland use to be farmland, it is still covered in ice, so why are we concerned with a measly 0.7 degree temp rise up till 1998 over the last 100 years? There is no justification for alarm and for scientists or politicians to tell us seas will rise, people will die, lands will be lost, etc. They use scenario models that isolate out CO2 only and treat it as if it operates in a vacuum. They take the sun out of their models, which tells me they are not truly looking for anything factual, just what is politically expedient.

Like they guy above said, if Mars has the same rise in temperature as we have had, around 1 degree, how can anybody possibly be niave enough to think we are causing our planet to warm?

Who are we to be so arrogant and niave to think we can destroy a planet. Do people understand how complicated and massive a planet is? We are but a mere spc of solar dust compared to our planet. The sun heats our planet, not us.

GlobalSmiles · 05-21-2008, 11:55 AM

[quote=TheHat;182224]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catawba

No actually it is pretty well placed. You just seem to tell people they are absurd b/c you dont agree with their facts and the people or links they provide. Did you check his sources out? Or are you ignoring them?

I will say it again, Greenland use to be farmland, it is still covered in ice, so why are we concerned with a measly 0.7 degree temp rise up till 1998 over the last 100 years? There is no justification for alarm and for scientists or politicians to tell us seas will rise, people will die, lands will be lost, etc. They use scenario models that isolate out CO2 only and treat it as if it operates in a vacuum. They take the sun out of their models, which tells me they are not truly looking for anything factual, just what is politically expedient.

Like they guy above said, if Mars has the same rise in temperature as we have had, around 1 degree, how can anybody possibly be niave enough to think we are causing our planet to warm?

Who are we to be so arrogant and niave to think we can destroy a planet. Do people understand how complicated and massive a planet is? We are but a mere spc of solar dust compared to our planet. The sun heats our planet, not us.

I do get the feeling that the people pushing the computer modeling have an agenda that is not in line with regular greenies like me. It seems to me that something is wrong with the modeling.

All irrelevant anyways when talking about fossil fuels.

catawba · 05-21-2008, 08:19 PM

[quote=GlobalSmiles;182263]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheHat

I do get the feeling that the people pushing the computer modeling have an agenda that is not in line with regular greenies like me. It seems to me that something is wrong with the modeling.

All irrelevant anyways when talking about fossil fuels.

The quote you referred to is not mine, you will need to take that up with TheHat.

mrnumbersman · 05-21-2008, 09:57 PM

Actually, the pictures are part of a major project. They want pictures of every weather station in the US to show location and how placement has influenced the data that is reported. I know about it because I wanted to help in the project but most of the weather stations within 50 miles of where I live had already been photographed. No sense in doing the work again.