Climate change - Page 2 - Political Forum

colourislast · 10-16-2007, 01:00 AM

Along with the false notion of man made global warming is the odd hypothesis of us coming close to the end of our supply of oil. Do you realize that has been going around ever since we found a use for that goo? There is more crude oil pumped into the oceans from cracks in the ocean floor than is used in the U.S.! That is a BUNCH of oil. The only issue is getting to it. Mexico, China and other countries NOT binding themselves up with man made global warming hooey are out there exploring and getting more every day. While we hamstring ourselves into no drilling or new refineries. Why? Why STOP using oil? Go to electric cars they say. Hey Jimbo, how you gunna insulate all those wires? Can't use oil to make plastic! Mud don't work so well for the lightweight body panels either. If you say it is okay to refine oil to make plastic, what are you going to do with that explosive by product?

Oregon Elephant · 10-16-2007, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colourislast

Along with the false notion of man made global warming is the odd hypothesis of us coming close to the end of our supply of oil. Do you realize that has been going around ever since we found a use for that goo? There is more crude oil pumped into the oceans from cracks in the ocean floor than is used in the U.S.! That is a BUNCH of oil. The only issue is getting to it. Mexico, China and other countries NOT binding themselves up with man made global warming hooey are out there exploring and getting more every day. While we hamstring ourselves into no drilling or new refineries. Why? Why STOP using oil? Go to electric cars they say. Hey Jimbo, how you gunna insulate all those wires? Can't use oil to make plastic! Mud don't work so well for the lightweight body panels either. If you say it is okay to refine oil to make plastic, what are you going to do with that explosive by product?

We're not saying you can't use any oil ever again, but limiting the use of oil. We're replacing it where we can.

paincake · 10-16-2007, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colourislast

Along with the false notion of man made global warming is the odd hypothesis of us coming close to the end of our supply of oil. Do you realize that has been going around ever since we found a use for that goo? There is more crude oil pumped into the oceans from cracks in the ocean floor than is used in the U.S.! That is a BUNCH of oil. The only issue is getting to it.

Actually I don't think it's been around since the beginning of using it. "Peak Oil" theories surfaced I believe in the mid-century. Who originally came up with such theories? The oil companies. They didn't publicize it because it would show a limitation, however their interest in that product made them look at it ways no one else was.
To say that there is no end of supply of a product is just silliness. We could argue WHEN that end is but we all know it can't be limitless. We know this because we know how it was made. Right?

Quote:

Mexico, China and other countries NOT binding themselves up with man made global warming hooey are out there exploring and getting more every day. While we hamstring ourselves into no drilling or new refineries. Why? Why STOP using oil? Go to electric cars they say. Hey Jimbo, how you gunna insulate all those wires? Can't use oil to make plastic! Mud don't work so well for the lightweight body panels either. If you say it is okay to refine oil to make plastic, what are you going to do with that explosive by product?

There are lots of reasons why even if you don't subscribe to "man made global warming hooey". You named a couple of them with the fact that China and Mexico are drilling it and dependent on it. China is ENORMOUS and their rate of consumption is growing. It's a pit. When that supply runs out if we're ALL dependent on oil we'll ALL lose and it will be a disaster unparalleled. IF we're already off and running in new directions its just that much ahead we'll be and that much less tragedy averted. Forward thinking is tough but we do have things called investors. Hopefully they'll see the gold at the end of the tunnel. It's not a matter of "if" but "when".

donsutherland1 · 10-17-2007, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colourislast

Why STOP using oil?

Putting aside climate change arguments, there are strong geopolitical reasons for reducing dependency on oil. According to the December 18, 2006 issue of Oil & Gas Journal, the following countries hold 54% of the world's proved oil reserves: Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, United Arab Emirates. If one adds the proved oil reserves of Russia and Venezuela to the mix, that figure rises to 65% of the world's proved oil reserves.

The Middle East has been geopolitically unstable for decades. The rise in the price of crude oil from around $80/barrel to more than $87/barrel on account of concerns of a Turkish military incursion into northern Iraq highlights the impact geopolitical risks can have. Most analysts have estimated that a war with Iran would cause prices to spike to $120/barrel - $160/barrel.

Venezuela is increasingly hostile toward the U.S. The U.S.-Russia bilateral relationship is continuing to erode. Dependency on oil is creating genuine economic and geopolitical vulnerability for the U.S. and its allies.

Wheeldog · 10-17-2007, 06:13 PM

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Originally Posted by LessGovMrPrez

Climate change is always happening. We as a species cannot stop it, nor can we create it. The very fact we ahve gone from calling it global cooling, to global warming, to now climate change shows how much of a load of crap this issue is.

You are correct in re: to the dynamic of natural climate change. However, the present situation far exceeds "normal" when it comes to the scope and pace of climate change. I am a firm believer in the basics of cause and effect. Burning billions of tons of oil, coal and natural gas releases millions of years of CO2 and methane accumulation. There is no credible scientific argument that these gasses contribute to the retention of solar heat reaching our planet. We can and are having a direct and measurable impact on the world's climate.

farside · 10-18-2007, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LessGovMrPrez

Climate change is always happening. We as a species cannot stop it, nor can we create it. The very fact we ahve gone from calling it global cooling, to global warming, to now climate change shows how much of a load of crap this issue is..

The theory of global cooling that arose in the 70s was never accepted by the scientific community. There were some papers written about the hypothesis, and it was taken up by the scientifically ignorant mass media, but it was never something taken too seriously by climate scientists. To compare it to global warming is completely misleading.

vladward8 · 10-18-2007, 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by farside

The theory of global cooling that arose in the 70s was never accepted by the scientific community. There were some papers written about the hypothesis, and it was taken up by the scientifically ignorant mass media, but it was never something taken too seriously by climate scientists. To compare it to global warming is completely misleading.

Most of earths 'heat' is trapped in the first ten thousand feet of atmosphere. Heat is actually distributed and carried away by large structures in earths atmosphere called "Convection Cells". The temperature of the lower atmosphere would be affected by the flow rates/ velocities, within the convection cells. Higher heat in the main convection zones means a more rapid flow...means a more rapid transport of heat from the surface. Perhaps we will get a bit more motivated when, with surprising speed, it begins to snow, heavily and regularly. Mankind will be moved.

texas_tank · 10-18-2007, 11:33 PM

we couldnt economically stop using oil.. thats impossible..

what we need to use is offer lots of different methods of fuel, such as flex, ethanol, electricity, bio diesel, vegitable oil.. etc.

Oregon Elephant · 10-19-2007, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texas_tank

we couldnt economically stop using oil.. thats impossible..

what we need to use is offer lots of different methods of fuel, such as flex, ethanol, electricity, bio diesel, vegitable oil.. etc.

We're talking about using less oil, say using other means to generate electricity. In turn that would make oil cheaper for all the other uses.

Oregon Elephant · 10-19-2007, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MountainMike

We need to develop biofuel from algae as fast as possible. I posted an article in the Environment forum about this breakthrough. Whereas harvest of corn or sugarcane is one a year and requires huge amounts of land, algae biofuel due to its super fast rate of growth is harvest daily and required very little space. It takes in carbon dioxide and its waste product from biofuel production is oxygen.

This could at least give us a couple of decades to develop other alternatives such as hydrogen.

I'm sure there were people back in 1910 that said the automobile was the devil's own invention and we should never give up the horse.

You are dead set on algae biofuel, aren't you?