Your Views on Americans - Page 14 - Political Forum

Tim · 04-12-2008, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hbloms

1: I've had a negative outlook on Americans for a long time... And i think i've turned many people from believing the US was the greatest western nation to thinking of them more as a necessary evil no longer necessary...

In general i believe that a country like the US of A definitely got some dark sides and i'm ready to forgive 'cause it's not easy being born and becoming a superpower in 500 years... It's confusing and difficult to stand the test of time...

BUT, some of the things i've seen over the past years have made me believe that America is the doom of Freedom... The statue of Liberty might stand in the waters of New York but it's ideals seem to be forgotten and replaced by a monster called Capitalism... The new Aristocrats of this world did not conquer with swords and lances... They did it with coins and bills...

2: Now about stereotyes... Stupid and ignorant, unable to understand true patriotism and arrogant beyond comprehension...

Stupid: It is a fact that the intellectuals in America isn't American... At least not 60% of them... The Grades the students have gotten has gotten lower and lower compared to other countries...

Ignorant: Many of the Americans still believe they won the Korean War... Like 27% or so called the Korean War a "strategic victory"... North Korea is still here...

True Patriotism: During the Vietnam War they never got why they couldn't break the Vietcong morale... Nowadays it's Afghanistan and Iraq... I think it's because they think of patriotism as loving the American Dream and the Flag, when it's really about getting out of bed and looking out your window smiling and thinking: "God Damn i'm glad i live here..."

Arrogant: The fact that when you make a poll on what country the US should invade next 2% always says France... What makes them think they could do something like that? I point to the word i wrote at the beginning + stupidity and a lot of American History instead of History...

And another thing i don't like about some Americans... They don't ever seem to realize how lucky they are... They've got an ENTIRE CONTINENT for themselves... I can't go 500 miles without having to learn a new language...

An extraordinary post: so much contempt, bitterness and malice. I would suggest you stop hating Americans and start asking yourself why you are so bitter?

Tim · 04-12-2008, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janpor

I always wondered why always this threads 'What do you think of America?'; 'What's your view on Americans as a people?' (etc.) ?
Well, I'm going to make a thread 'What do you think of the EU and Europe?'

But to awnser the question what my views are on Americans.
Well, Americans share the same democratic values as Europeans, but they tend to forget that most conceptes of Western Civilization are Europe-made.
Well I don't care where they were invented...but Americans seem always to believe it our typical American concepts.

I think they live, with their minds, still in the '80's, not technological, but f.e. ethically.
They seem not to know much of the world, or maybe they just don't care. But maybe this has to do that most Americans don't know a foreign language (except Spanish), whilst Europeans know at least two. American companies come litterally beg here in Flanders for people to emigrate to the US for 6 months or a year to work there...because we know so many languages. Actually a friend of mine departed yesterday to the Eastcoast to be a tourguide there for German, French, Dutch and Spanish tourists.
Knowing only one language isn't acceptable anymore in the world we live in today.

On the other hand, a lot of Americans live on the country (if you compare it with Europe) and that creates a special mentality...they're really open and socialable.

If you want to run a thread about how Americans view Europe, that is up to you - go ahead.

SorrybutIhavetocrushyou · 04-12-2008, 07:25 PM

lol Bit of a loaded thread.

I would say, to generalize about an entire people based on the actions of their government or the decisions they make "on behalf" of it's people, would look unfavorably on any nation.

I'd ask any Americans reading this to hear me out, there is both criticism and compliment below and I will try to make my point in a rational respectful way.
And when I say "Americans" I am generalizing from my personal experience.

I'm not American, although I have citizenship (I'm actually British), I've met many Americans and can honestly say, some are fucking morons, some are fucking legends and the rest are in between (this of course depends on the qualities you look for in a person but I defy anyone to meet a random 100 Americans and not like at least 1 of them if not half of them). Generally it seems to me that people in the cities tend to be cooler than in Texas Chainsaw Massacre territory.
I guess my only generalized criticism would be aggressiveness. This I think is a result of many things, including an extraordinary level of patriotism, a sense of isolation both culturally and geographically and a sense of invisibility that can only come from a country that hasn't had to deal with thousands of years of conflict, wins but more importantly loses.

It is a country that was founded on violent revolution, and throughout it's history has successfully used violence to suppress or defeat both real and perceived threats. It's a nation of people that are bombarded with violent images on a daily basis on television both in the news and in fiction. It is a country that fights itself viciously between parties (both sides of which want the best for their country) It is not hard for me to understand why they are aggressive.

A big part of this aggressiveness that i think other countries find the most objectionable is played out in Americans hatred of criticism. Now I'll be clear, no one likes criticism whatever country you're from, if someone was to tell me otherwise I'd tell them they are a lier. Other countries see themselves as being diplomatic and just saying "look, we just want you to chill out a bit" but as someone who always tries to be unbiased (to varying degrees of success) it doesn't always come across that way.

The American people do give a considerable (unmatched in fact) amount of money to charities around the world (yes they are the richest, and could give more, but they have no obligations, and Europe and Asia could do more as well, but don't). Does the US government donate for political reasons? Of course it does, all governments do, you don't think they would win more points by spending it at home? The American people though, generally, do genuinely want people around the world to have a better life, including freedom. My personal feeling is that the heart is in the right place but the method is misguided.

Americans (the general population) see themselves as protectors of the world (Whether they are or not, should have that obligation or not, or we want them to be or not), it might be an idealistic opinion, even arrogant, but it is definitely honorable in intent.

In my opinion we demand a lot, we expect them to sacrifice a lot and we should be a little more respectful. But on the other side of the coin, if you want to be on top you have to make sacrifices that others do not, and not just the ones you think you're making for others, but sacrifices that others perceive as being needed to be made. Most importantly, you have to understand that when those who look to you for guidance, see that your government does things that contradict the moral and idealogical beliefs that you passionately profess to hold, it disenfranchises them. And nothing hurts people more, no matter who you are, than your trust and hope being seemingly betrayed.

I left out many things, it's late and I've had a few beers. My bad and i'm happy to hear any points that I missed out.

I hope no one was offended by that, not because i'm a wimp lol. But because I think the way we phrase things causes a lot of the problems we have, not our intention.

P.S. I hope someone reads that I spent the best part of an hour writing it lol

prezident · 04-13-2008, 06:25 AM

Nice and warm people.Understand you when you talk with them.

rakkasan · 04-13-2008, 09:33 AM

i am biased i am american and i think we generally good people but we are too wrapped up in our own private lives to pay attention to things, thus the reason that we do bad things in the world cause with our vote we being the populace we dont stop our leaders from doing the wrong thing

Tim · 04-13-2008, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SorrybutIhavetocrushyou

lol Bit of a loaded thread.

I would say, to generalize about an entire people based on the actions of their government or the decisions they make "on behalf" of it's people, would look unfavorably on any nation.

I'd ask any Americans reading this to hear me out, there is both criticism and compliment below and I will try to make my point in a rational respectful way.
And when I say "Americans" I am generalizing from my personal experience.

I'm not American, although I have citizenship (I'm actually British), I've met many Americans and can honestly say, some are fucking morons, some are fucking legends and the rest are in between (this of course depends on the qualities you look for in a person but I defy anyone to meet a random 100 Americans and not like at least 1 of them if not half of them). Generally it seems to me that people in the cities tend to be cooler than in Texas Chainsaw Massacre territory.
I guess my only generalized criticism would be aggressiveness. This I think is a result of many things, including an extraordinary level of patriotism, a sense of isolation both culturally and geographically and a sense of invisibility that can only come from a country that hasn't had to deal with thousands of years of conflict, wins but more importantly loses.

It is a country that was founded on violent revolution, and throughout it's history has successfully used violence to suppress or defeat both real and perceived threats. It's a nation of people that are bombarded with violent images on a daily basis on television both in the news and in fiction. It is a country that fights itself viciously between parties (both sides of which want the best for their country) It is not hard for me to understand why they are aggressive.

A big part of this aggressiveness that i think other countries find the most objectionable is played out in Americans hatred of criticism. Now I'll be clear, no one likes criticism whatever country you're from, if someone was to tell me otherwise I'd tell them they are a lier. Other countries see themselves as being diplomatic and just saying "look, we just want you to chill out a bit" but as someone who always tries to be unbiased (to varying degrees of success) it doesn't always come across that way.

The American people do give a considerable (unmatched in fact) amount of money to charities around the world (yes they are the richest, and could give more, but they have no obligations, and Europe and Asia could do more as well, but don't). Does the US government donate for political reasons? Of course it does, all governments do, you don't think they would win more points by spending it at home? The American people though, generally, do genuinely want people around the world to have a better life, including freedom. My personal feeling is that the heart is in the right place but the method is misguided.

Americans (the general population) see themselves as protectors of the world (Whether they are or not, should have that obligation or not, or we want them to be or not), it might be an idealistic opinion, even arrogant, but it is definitely honorable in intent.

In my opinion we demand a lot, we expect them to sacrifice a lot and we should be a little more respectful. But on the other side of the coin, if you want to be on top you have to make sacrifices that others do not, and not just the ones you think you're making for others, but sacrifices that others perceive as being needed to be made. Most importantly, you have to understand that when those who look to you for guidance, see that your government does things that contradict the moral and idealogical beliefs that you passionately profess to hold, it disenfranchises them. And nothing hurts people more, no matter who you are, than your trust and hope being seemingly betrayed.

I left out many things, it's late and I've had a few beers. My bad and i'm happy to hear any points that I missed out.

I hope no one was offended by that, not because i'm a wimp lol. But because I think the way we phrase things causes a lot of the problems we have, not our intention.

P.S. I hope someone reads that I spent the best part of an hour writing it lol

These are interesting comments. Thanks for taking the time to write them.

I would certainly disagree that Americans hate criticism more than others. That really isn't fair. Thie thread is an example of our willingness to be criticized. I have a high view of Britain (or I did until recently) and they are extremely sensitive to any criticism.

Remember that anti-Americanism is everywhere today. It can be exhausting listening to other people tell us how much they hate us. Much of the criticism is justified. But I think a lot of it is blaming Americans for their own problems. Hatred is easy and even enjoyable (unfortunately) and hating Americans is the sport of cowards - there is no price to pay, certainly for Europeans.

I know that a major factor is the economic, cultural and military primacy of the US in the world. Whether or not you think it is a good thing - it is a fact, just as Britain was the #1 nation throughout the Pax Britannica.

The use of violence is not nearly as prevalent throughout American history as you seem to think. There were many decades in the twentieth century when the cime rates were very low - even in the midst of the Great Depression. But it is certainly true that violence is a terrible problem today, and getting worse.

Do not confuse the general perception of the government with ordinary Americans. Most Americans do not care about the world as a whole: there is certainly no interest in being the world's protector. Isolationism is very deeply rooted in the US: the US is the place where people came to get away from the old world.

Today the world wants Americans to leave the world stage. Well, if Obama is elected, you may get your wish and most Americans would agree.

Personally I think isolationism is very dangerous. Be careful what you wish for!

SorrybutIhavetocrushyou · 04-13-2008, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim

These are interesting comments. Thanks for taking the time to write them.

I would certainly disagree that Americans hate criticism more than others. That really isn't fair. Thie thread is an example of our willingness to be criticized. I have a high view of Britain (or I did until recently) and they are extremely sensitive to any criticism.

Remember that anti-Americanism is everywhere today. It can be exhausting listening to other people tell us how much they hate us. Much of the criticism is justified. But I think a lot of it is blaming Americans for their own problems. Hatred is easy and even enjoyable (unfortunately) and hating Americans is the sport of cowards - there is no price to pay, certainly for Europeans.

I know that a major factor is the economic, cultural and military primacy of the US in the world. Whether or not you think it is a good thing - it is a fact, just as Britain was the #1 nation throughout the Pax Britannica.

The use of violence is not nearly as prevalent throughout American history as you seem to think. There were many decades in the twentieth century when the cime rates were very low - even in the midst of the Great Depression. But it is certainly true that violence is a terrible problem today, and getting worse.

Do not confuse the general perception of the government with ordinary Americans. Most Americans do not care about the world as a whole: there is certainly no interest in being the world's protector. Isolationism is very deeply rooted in the US: the US is the place where people came to get away from the old world.

Today the world wants Americans to leave the world stage. Well, if Obama is elected, you may get your wish and most Americans would agree.

Personally I think isolationism is very dangerous. Be careful what you wish for!

Fair enough, just goes to show it's all about perception.

sydneymatt · 04-14-2008, 09:08 AM

I'm down here in Sydney, Australia.

There's a lot of anti-American sentiment in this country. It's fashionable to sneer at Americans and blame them for prety much everything that's wrong in the world.

But there's also a lot of goodwill for the USA. You just don't hear it very often. It's not the "done thing".

I have long been fascinated by the country. I particularly admire Americans' love of freedom of speech and democracy, and their often selfless willingness to help people in other countries.

Sure, the US has been a bully and made a lot of mistakes. But overall the world would be a much more miserable, violent place had America not led the way and tried to do the right thing.

Tim · 04-14-2008, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sydneymatt

I'm down here in Sydney, Australia.

There's a lot of anti-American sentiment in this country. It's fashionable to sneer at Americans and blame them for prety much everything that's wrong in the world.

But there's also a lot of goodwill for the USA. You just don't hear it very often. It's not the "done thing".

I have long been fascinated by the country. I particularly admire Americans' love of freedom of speech and democracy, and their often selfless willingness to help people in other countries.

Sure, the US has been a bully and made a lot of mistakes. But overall the world would be a much more miserable, violent place had America not led the way and tried to do the right thing.

Interesting. It is so unusual to hear anything positive about Americans from Australia. I know that Australians are among the most anti-American people in the world. Any American would be a fool to go to Australia. It is nice to see at least one reasonable person who understands that there are good as well as bad aspects to life in the US.

George Berkely · 04-14-2008, 02:46 PM

I like french fries