|
|
|
Dear guest,
Welcome to the internet's top destination for the civil discussion of politics. This is a forum for discussion and debate of the issues, and not for personal remarks aimed at other discussants.
This forum has no political affiliation and welcomes your perspective on the issues. Membership is free. If you would like to join the discussions and debates please REGISTER HERE.
All new members should review the forum rules. The "Today's Posts" button automatically adjusts itself to fit your screen on its first use for Firefox and on its second use, for Internet Explorer. Have a pleasant day. (This is a spam free board.)
|
 |
07-15-2007, 10:40 PM
|
#1 (permalink)
|
|
Conscript
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Elmira, NY
Posts: 6
Country:
|
Bush's loud mouth and the Global crisis in Palestine
Problem:
In the last two years Palestine has been thrown in to a civil war type state. The U.S. asked Fatah backed President Mahnoud Abbas to hold elections for Parliament to conclude at the beginning of 2006. Although Democratic, the Bush Administration failed to fore see that the newly formed Hamas political party would sweep into the offices in the Parliament.
The Hamas are still considered a terrorist organization by the U.S. as well as many other countries. Because of this, after the elections, the major countries of the world decided to halt aid to the Palestinian Authority. Soon after this, the P.A. Parliament crumbled, in part due to the uncooperative Fatah holding seats in the government. The Bush Administration tried to counter there blunder by insisting Abbas call for new elections prematurely. This was done without inquiring into the stance of the Hamas political party. The reaction by the Hamas to take the Gaza strip into their possession by force in June of 2007 is questionable. Yet, this might have been done because the Palestine people's elected leaders, Hamas, in parliament were not being heard by the minority Fatah. Who, along with the poorly lead U.S. Government, damned the democratic process that they had pushed for.
So now we have a reached a critical point in the peace process of the Middle East. After the take over of the Gaza strip by Hamas, the P.A. President declared a state of emergency and took the West Bank because he has a Fatah majority there. Abbas is in charge of the P.A.'s army along with thousands of Presidential guards trained and supplied by the U.S. This force might be used to take back the out numbered Hamas military in Gaza. Abbas then dissolved the Hamas controlled government and established his Fatah party a top the P.A. This also done in mid-June led the U.S. to return aid to the Fatah controlled West Bank. The U.S. then recognized Abbas's Fatah party as head of Palestine.
There Bush goes again, not listening to the citizens of a country he's involved with or governs. The U.S. told the Hamas controlled parliament, before the split to recognize Israel as a nation. After the Gaza strip was obtained by Hamas and the P.A. Prime Minister, the Hamas made it known worldwide that it would recognize Israel as a nation. They would also sign a ten year truce with them. In return they asked that Israel vacate East Jerusalem, the West Bank, and the Gaza strip. Not a bad deal since according to past peace accords the lands mentioned was suppose to be in Palestinian control by now.
The one Bush Administration point that makes sense is that the Hamas organization is partly sponsered by Iran. And Iran is one of the two countries that we haven't invaded left on the original three known as the Axis of terror. Not that they are a threat right now, but they are pursuing nuclear capabilities. And anyone that hates the U.S. as much as Iran does should not be allowed to have those capabilities. (This doesn't mean that I'm for the U.S. dictating it's demands to the world.)
Solution:
The Bush Administration should first start by listening to the thoughts of the rest of the world on matters that concern the rest of the world. Next, the world as a whole should give the people of Palestine the chance to vote on a new government that will recognize all the parties involved. (Push for unity.) With this newly elected government in place, the world will demand that Israel give up the terrortery owed to the P.A. With the realization of a state of their own, maybe the violence will decrease and the peace process will actually have a chance.
Now I'm not saying that this is a perfect plan. But with President Bush and President Abbas only listening to their own agenda's, we need to change course in the way the world handles the Middle East. Bring resolution to problems instead of meddling. Help find solutions with the direct interaction of the U.N. and the rest of the world. This can be done, so lets try.
__________________
The Evolution of Thought Institute
|
|
|
07-26-2007, 05:41 PM
|
#2 (permalink)
|
|
Mercenary
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 208
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainczech
The Hamas are still considered a terrorist organization by the U.S. as well as many other countries. Because of this, after the elections, the major countries of the world decided to halt aid to the Palestinian Authority.
|
All soverign states have the right to disburse economic funds in accordance with their national best interests and foreign policy portfolio's.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainczech
Soon after this, the P.A. Parliament crumbled, in part due to the uncooperative Fatah holding seats in the government. The Bush Administration tried to counter there blunder by insisting Abbas call for new elections prematurely. This was done without inquiring into the stance of the Hamas political party. The reaction by the Hamas to take the Gaza strip into their possession by force in June of 2007 is questionable.
|
Nothing questionable about it. It was a coup to remove Fatah from the corridors of Palestinian power. About a month previously, Hamas and Fatah had both signed the Mecca Agreement which would end the internal civil war and create a unity government. Obviously, it didn't work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainczech
Yet, this might have been done because the Palestine people's elected leaders, Hamas, in parliament were not being heard by the minority Fatah. Who, along with the poorly lead U.S. Government, damned the democratic process that they had pushed for.
|
With Hamas in power Palestine was suffocating financially. No one was getting paid. Police, teachers, sanitation workers etc. were involved in work stoppages. No doubt, the Palestinian people have a right to elect a terrorist organization into power, but then they also have to accept the international economic consequences that are implicit in this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainczech
So now we have a reached a critical point in the peace process of the Middle East. After the take over of the Gaza strip by Hamas, the P.A. President declared a state of emergency and took the West Bank because he has a Fatah majority there. Abbas is in charge of the P.A.'s army along with thousands of Presidential guards trained and supplied by the U.S. This force might be used to take back the out numbered Hamas military in Gaza. Abbas then dissolved the Hamas controlled government and established his Fatah party a top the P.A. This also done in mid-June led the U.S. to return aid to the Fatah controlled West Bank. The U.S. then recognized Abbas's Fatah party as head of Palestine.
|
Abbas is within his rights as president of Palestine to declare a state of emergency and call for new elections.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainczech
There Bush goes again, not listening to the citizens of a country he's involved with or governs.
|
As I recall, the governments of most nations quickly recognized the Ramallah government as legitimate and strongly reviled the Hamas coup. The citations on this are quite numerous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainczech
The U.S. told the Hamas controlled parliament, before the split to recognize Israel as a nation. After the Gaza strip was obtained by Hamas and the P.A. Prime Minister, the Hamas made it known worldwide that it would recognize Israel as a nation. They would also sign a ten year truce with them. In return they asked that Israel vacate East Jerusalem, the West Bank, and the Gaza strip. Not a bad deal since according to past peace accords the lands mentioned was suppose to be in Palestinian control by now.
|
You should check on the above. Hamas actually issued five ultimatums as a precondition for negotiations.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainczech
The one Bush Administration point that makes sense is that the Hamas organization is partly sponsered by Iran. And Iran is one of the two countries that we haven't invaded left on the original three known as the Axis of terror. Not that they are a threat right now, but they are pursuing nuclear capabilities. And anyone that hates the U.S. as much as Iran does should not be allowed to have those capabilities. (This doesn't mean that I'm for the U.S. dictating it's demands to the world.)
|
Actually, it is the IAEA that is pressuring Iran for full disclosure and adherence to the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty of which Iran is a signatory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainczech
Solution:
The Bush Administration should first start by listening to the thoughts of the rest of the world on matters that concern the rest of the world. Next, the world as a whole should give the people of Palestine the chance to vote on a new government that will recognize all the parties involved. (Push for unity.) With this newly elected government in place, the world will demand that Israel give up the terrortery owed to the P.A. With the realization of a state of their own, maybe the violence will decrease and the peace process will actually have a chance.
|
The unity government (Mecca Agreement) didn't pan out. What you have here are two factions who strongly disagree on how to realize a Palestinian state. The state of Israel will not agree to anything permanent unless its security concerns are addressed in depth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brainczech
Now I'm not saying that this is a perfect plan. But with President Bush and President Abbas only listening to their own agenda's, we need to change course in the way the world handles the Middle East. Bring resolution to problems instead of meddling. Help find solutions with the direct interaction of the U.N. and the rest of the world. This can be done, so lets try.
|
The only people who can ultimately solve this issue are the Palestinians and Israelis themselves. To suceed and possess longevity, it must be settled from within.
|
|
|
07-26-2007, 09:03 PM
|
#3 (permalink)
|
|
Conscript
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 3
|
Palestine is the fulcrum of all the middle-east problems. Did the world expect
George Dubbya Bush to really bring peace. A rich frat boy with delusions of granduer.
|
|
|
07-27-2007, 12:07 PM
|
#4 (permalink)
|
|
Mercenary
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 208
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexander_nz_2007
Palestine is the fulcrum of all the middle-east problems. Did the world expect George Dubbya Bush to really bring peace. A rich frat boy with delusions of granduer.
|
US presidents from both sides of the political aisle attempted to broker a ME peace accord. If it was so easy, it would have been accomplished by now.
|
|
|
07-27-2007, 01:01 PM
|
#5 (permalink)
|
|
Knight
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New York
Posts: 637
Country:
|
Brainczech,
In part, you wrote:
After the Gaza strip was obtained by Hamas and the P.A. Prime Minister, the Hamas made it known worldwide that it would recognize Israel as a nation.
Hamas never suggested that it would recognize Israel. Instead, according to a June 28, 2007 report on Israel Radio (among other sources), Hamas's proposal fell far short of that. The report stated, "A senior source in Isma'il Haniyah's government in the Gaza Strip has relayed a secret message to Israel stating that Haniyah's government is prepared to guarantee security at the Gaza Strip's crossings if Israel opens the crossings to the movement of people and goods."
A security guarantee at various Gaza crossings does not in any way provide formal recognition of Israel's legitimacy. Later, a spokesman for Hamas, Sami Abu-Zuhri, denied that Hamas had even made the limited offer described above.
|
|
|
07-27-2007, 06:52 PM
|
#6 (permalink)
|
|
Mercenary
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 281
|
Zephyr
Xotica... you are a breath of fresh air.
|
|
|
| Thread Tools |
|
|
| Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:25 AM.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2 Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.1.0
A vBSkinworks Design
 |
|