Bronze_soldier

Here already two months, since the world with an alarm discusses outrageous intention of Estonian guidance to take away a monument to Soldier-liberator from downtown in Tallin . In fact the graves of warriors were honoured at all times. Memory about them appropriately became memory of people.
But age-old traditions, apparently, are unknown to present newly-baked politicians. The proof was in this utterance: “Soviet troops who fought against fascists are a gang of bandits ”

That's how the present president of Estonia in his interview on BBC took the liberty to estimate historical events, related releasing Estonia from fascist invaders in 1944. We don' t consider these words as a simply trick of irresponsible politician, who doesnt know history, but we consider this as a provocation, as an attempt to embroil nations and desecrate memory about heroes.

Is there a need to be surprissed after such words and such estimations of a great mission of those people, who risked their lives to release Europe from a fascism, that today happy and prosperous Europeans put on again SS uniform and march on the streets of the Estonian cities?

And why does the public still remain silent?
Why is nobody from the politicians indignant on provocative speeches of president of Estonia?
Why are Jewish organizations not indignant that ideology of fascism is openly popularized in Estonia?
Why are the MASS-MEDIA quiet?

When will the measures on permission of this be accepted, because conflict is passing already to the international level?

We sent many letters with information about glorification of fascism in Estonia, encouraged at state level, but we did not recieeved any reaction!

Dear ladies and gentlemen! If events, what be going on now in the world, are not indifferent you, help to remind how fascism is terrible to reporters and members of parliament, who started to forget it!
All information about fascism propaganda in Estonia you can find on a site
Bronze Soldier - Main

francois60

Estonia doesn't like fascism.

You have to understand that Estonia was rescued from fascism only to fall into the arms of another type of fascism, communism.

Why would they be grateful?

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chicken butt

Slartibartfas

I also would warn to automatically connect seeing the Russian forces critically with being fascist.

Of course fascists will naturally call Russian communists evils, but just because they do, it should not be sacrosanct to look at the Russian forces with an open mind.

I highly doubt that many Estonian politicians can be labeled as fascists.


PS:
In case you are depressed about the coming down of the statue in Estonia you still have the one in my hometown Vienna

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francois60

Austria can afford to be more magnanimous. The Soviets liberated and left Austria a free state. Estonia was dominated by the Soviets for 50 years.
.

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chicken butt

Slartibartfas

Actually you are right. But don't forget that Austria was occupied by Russia for 10 years nonetheless. Thats not quite the 45 years Estonia was, but not nothing either. And I can grant you the Russian made a good deal in order to accept to leave. A very good deal. (ie we had to pay more than just one fortune)

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francois60

I'm actually reading about that right now. I knew a lot about the 4-power occupation of Germany, but had never really read anything on the occupation of Austria. I'd always wondered how Austria got to become a free state when the Soviets were the ones who liberated Vienna.

Wish we could have paid them to leave all the other states they terrorized for the next 50 years.

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chicken butt

Slartibartfas

Well, Austria was a special case. There were a few different factors together contributing to the fact that it was better for the Russians to make complete Austria a neutral state (that has to remain military untouched by the west as well as the east), than having a strategically rather worthless alone hardly livable part of Austria. To put it short (even though many more things played a role as well).
Still Stalin would have never agreed to give it up, Austria had to wait for Stalins dead and then had the luck to broker the deal when the Russian leadership was sending some positive signs. Among them was also to release those imprisoned soldiers that succeeded in surviving the gulags for over ten years while never getting the chance to be freed.

Another major point might have been that the Austrian Communist party never got much above 1% and terribly failed at all attempts to putsch the democratic government away.

PS:
Perhaps worth to mention in regard to the threads issue of occupation. The Russian soldiers were told that they were not occupating the Reich here, but freed the Austrian state from it. (We all know that we were not those "victims" as they made it look like but anyway). Due to this it is said that the Russians treated Austrians considerably better than the Germans.
In fact did the leading Commissioners in punish every Russian soldier who was found at pooling, raping etc. (some being instantly shot by his own commissioner). My family had the luck that some sort of general or at least a person with some leading responsibilities wasenquartered, they experienced not a single greater problem.

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francois60

Cool explanation. Thanks.

Do you think the Russians were trying to woo the Austrians?

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chicken butt

Slartibartfas

The Austrian communist party that exists up today tried back then to start a revolution. I dont know all the details, but I think it was principally a movement by Austrians not just a bonafide Russian operation. It reveived however support from the Russians.

My grandfather told me once that short after the war, the Austrian communists tried to take over factories in the east sector (which my home region belonged to). I think they tried to do so by bringing the workers on their side and perhaps with soft force.
They faced however stiff organized opposition by the workers who had no lust for a communist revolution.

I hope I am not telling you here anything wrong but I think the support of the Russians for the Communist party was cut back when they saw its a waste of money.

I dont know how much you know about Austria but back then pretty all of the workers were loyal supporters for the socialist party. Mind the difference! Socialist is at no costs communist. (The other large party in Austria has been the Peoples party, the heir of the "Christian socials", ie the conservatives). The Socialist party was more or less the grave for the communists. Why supporting an autocratic movement sponsored by the Russians who want to destroy that little restored order after the war immediately. We just experienced the last dictatorship, we had no urgent need for the next one. The socialists were on the other side standing up for the interests of the workers, while sincerely supporting the democratic principle and rejecting any revolutions or autocratic forms of government.

This all left no space for the communists. The Russians had to recognize that, Austria was no second east Germany.



You know what perhaps also a very important key factor was that made the Austrian case different from the (east-) German one? While the fights over Vienna were still ongoing and the Reich had not even capitulated, the Austrian freedom movement O5 organized already the reestablishment of a provisional Austrian government. It got functional immediately and did take up negotiations with Russia over its status. Interestingly both sides could agree quite soon on a common new provisional chancellor. It was a socialist named Karl Renner, not a communist. Funnily in the first time it was the western allieds who where skeptical and contested this new provisional Austrian government.
It turned out however that this government was not quite the puppet regime the US etc might have believed it would be and all sides agreed to it.

Thats already the very first fundamental difference between Austria and Germany. In Austria the political integrity was challenged by the occupation zones like in Germany, but all zones only knew a single federal government, who resided in the historical capital Vienna.

So did it happen that the same person who founded the 1st Republic of Austria after WW1 also founded the 2nd Republic of Austria after WW2. Funny isn't it?


PS:
I hope you are interested in this, as I have gone way off topic... if you should have a few further questions, we should start a new thread at best.

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Rusperson

I think, that you don`t know anything about communism. Communism isn`t another type of fascism.