Why gays and Jews are increasingly joining the right - Political Forum

francois60 · 01-17-2007, 07:45 AM

Because the left is selling them out to win Muslim votes:

COMING OUT CONSERVATIVE:
Sarah Wildman's piece--about how the European right is warming up to Jews--made me think about another minority group that the right may make headway with: gays.

For many years, the European left was the natural home for gays. But, now that gay equality has been enshrined in most European countries, the political landscape is shifting. Muslim immigrants moving to Europe are not exactly keen on homosexuality (never mind its legal recognition), and some of their more virulent spokesmen have repeatedly made clear their desire to not only repeal those laws, but have called for violence against gay people.

Pim Fortuyn, the gay Dutch politician (repeatedly and incorrectly referred to as "far-right" by the European media) murdered in 2002 for his statements on Muslim immigrants who refused to assimilate, served as a poignant example of what could soon emerge as a constituency for the European right.

The left's loss of Jewish support has as much to do with demographics as it does ideology: It is not just because Muslims vastly outnumber (and thus, provide more votes than) Jews that left wing parties have become so virulently critical of Israel; it's also because of a general shift in European left ideology from supporting the Jewish state soon after its creation (when it was the underdog) to supporting the new underdog, the Palestinians. Gays may soon face the brunt of a similar cynical trend in left politics, as protecting Muslim "cultural sensitivities" proves more important to the European left than winning (comparably paltry) gay votes.

Ken Livingstone, the socialist mayor of London, is a prominent example of an ostensibly pro-gay politician selling out homosexuals (and not to mention, women, Jews, and moderate Muslims) to pander to Islamic fascism. How many more will follow?

Ken has a lot to be sorry for | Comment | The Observer

The Plank

FRYandBENDER · 01-17-2007, 08:25 AM

That is pretty interesting. The left's attempt to include and appeal to everybody is actually working against them. I wonder if we might see somthing like that happen here.

francois60 · 01-17-2007, 10:12 AM

The left's agenda isn't inclusion, it's the welfare state. Tolerance was just something they found politically convenient because the right was idiotic enough to be haters. If being haters will get them more votes and more support for social programs and anti-business legislation, they'll hate.

Brother Oz · 01-17-2007, 02:30 PM

It's not a good idea to generalise. The left in Britain has kind of split: the more mainstream left is turning away from Islam in anger about oppression of women and so forth, while some of the more extreme left (like Red Ken) seem to be in love with Islam, and if anyone criticises extreme Islamists than they brand them intolerant.

francois60 · 01-17-2007, 03:10 PM

You're right. But understand that we get our news mainly from your press, and it's mainly your press that calls feminist and gay groups "right wing". Along with Pim Fortuyn of course.

FRYandBENDER · 01-17-2007, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Oz

the more extreme left seem to be in love with Islam, and if anyone criticises extreme Islamists than they brand them intolerant.

Hey, kind of like in America.

FRYandBENDER · 01-17-2007, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by francois60

The left's agenda isn't inclusion, it's the welfare state. Tolerance was just something they found politically convenient because the right was idiotic enough to be haters. If being haters will get them more votes and more support for social programs and anti-business legislation, they'll hate.

True that.

francois60 · 01-17-2007, 04:11 PM

A good example is all the pro-life Democrats that got elected. Except for pro-choice groups, there was nary a peep among Democratic activists about this.

The only way to get the base against you is to challenge the New Deal and Great Society. All civil rights issues are negotiable. Even the war is negotiable. But you must support Social Security and Medicare and welfare if you want to be a Democrat.

Brother Oz · 01-17-2007, 04:13 PM

The point of the left has always been to oppose the right, as the point of the right was to oppose the left.
The left was anti-establishment (I don't mean that people on the left happened to be anti-establishment, I mean that was the point of the left) and the establishment was racist, so the left was anti-racism, not because necessarily people on the left were anti-racist, but anyone who was anti-racist was anti-establishment, and so defined as being on the left.

superbug · 01-17-2007, 04:16 PM

Also, notice how Nancy kind of went silent before the election? She beats the drum of a socialist state so they kept her quiet.