Is the Republic of Turkey really a part of Western Civilization? - Page 3 - Political Forum

Parisyann · 05-02-2008, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinkerbell

Perhaps I can agree with you about existing despotism today.I think Turkey a despotic and an anti-democratic country,for this reason,Turkey isn't a part of European Union.
I mean western civilization as an economic and cultural union.European culture includes a shared language with Catholic and Protestant Christianity.All europeans use Latin alphabet (not Cyrillic, Arabic or Japan alphabet).I think western civilization is all of these.

Alright, that's a start. In *my sense* western civilization is maybe as much an economic and cultural union (here we might be back to my definition of a mix of many different civilizations, but then what is a civilization if not already a group of many different people) as a trend. I may be wrong; but I think calling it "western" makes only sense in the way that it is competing. It may have nothing to do about Geography. Just my two cents.

Tinkerbell · 05-02-2008, 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parisyann

Alright, that's a start. In *my sense* western civilization is maybe as much an economic and cultural union (here we might be back to my definition of a mix of many different civilizations, but then what is a civilization if not already a group of many different people) as a trend. I may be wrong but I think calling it "western" makes only sense in the way that it is competing with other trends. It may have nothing to do about Geography. My two cents.

Being a cosmopolitan society like Roman Empire isn't necessary for being a civilization.A Chinese civilization has been on the Earth Planet for a long time,but Chineses have been a homogeneous society if we don't think Tibetan Lamaists in China and Uyghurs in Xinjiang.
You are right.Calling a western civilization can make sense that it is competing with other trends,but aren't our civilizations competing with each other as enemy?

Parisyann · 05-02-2008, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinkerbell

Being a cosmopolitan society like Roman Empire isn't necessary for being a civilization.A Chinese civilization has been on the Earth Planet for a long time,but Chineses have been a homogeneous society if we don't think Tibetan Lamaists in China and Uyghurs in Xinjiang.
You are right.Calling a western civilization can make sense that it is competing with other trends,but aren't our civilizations competing with each other as enemy?

No I don't think they really are. That's why I first said it doesn't make sense to talk about a "western" civilization; and, now that we're talking about the latter, I may as well ask you what do you mean by "civilization" because it doesn't make any sense for me neither. Anyway what I'd most probably agree on, fight for, and join others in some sort of trend, is definitely what I'd call justice, human rights, democracy where I live and maybe a little further.

Slartibartfas · 05-02-2008, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinkerbell

So, I want to ask you an important question for the future of mankind. Must Turkey really be a part of Western Civilization and should Turkey really join to the European Union? Do you really believe that Turkey is a part of Western Civilization?

Yes, I believe that Turkey is part of the Western civilization.
Off course its on the cross roads of different cultures. Turkey is a Muslim country for sure, but that does not exclude the possibility of being Western.

The Republic has pretty little to do with the Osman Empire. It was founded on the ashes of the Osman Empire in many parts as the very opposite of the fallen Empire. The reforms of Atatürk had not an all encompassing but a lasting effect on Turkey.

I consider the Greeks to be part of the "Western civilization" beyond doubt, but if you look beyond national myths, apart from the different religion there is a hell of a lot things that are quite similar between Greece and Turkey. Both countries arose from the Osman Empire, the one as former center and the other as former dependent periphery but that does not change my point.

Tinkerbell · 05-02-2008, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parisyann

No, I don't think they really are. That's why I first said it doesn't make sense to talk about a "western" civilization; and, now that we are talking about the latter, I may as well ask you what do you mean by "civilization" because it doesn't make any sense for me neither. Anyway what I would most probably agree on, fight for, and join others in some sort of trend, is definitely what I'd call justice, human rights, democracy where I live and maybe further.

Could I ask you some questions? What do justice, human rights and democracy mean? How do you define justice, human rights and democracy?

Parisyann · 05-02-2008, 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinkerbell

Could I ask you some questions? What do justice, human rights and democracy mean? How do you define justice, human rights and democracy?

Yes but please ask them in a way that any poster can respond. I feel personally too much *engaged* in this discussion and like I said I'm no specialist. I'd like you to first try to respond to them or maybe some other poster while I'll think about it and try to give you a quick answer later.

EDIT: Not fair ok I'll try first! I think justice is the kind of thing that works really well for people in say the US... I think human rights are what are nicely protecting people too in say the EU... Democracy would be what is not doing too bad for people where it has been implemented so far and that would be almost all around the globe... How about you? How do you define them?

Tinkerbell · 05-02-2008, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parisyann

Yes but please ask them in a way that any poster can respond. I feel personally too much *engaged* in this discussion and like I said I'm no specialist. I'd like you to first try to respond to them or maybe some other poster while I'll think about it and try to give you a quick answer later.

Please relax - you can write what you want to write about it. I know that you aren't a specialist. I am not a specialist,too

I really wonder what you will write about these concepts. I will wait your answer

Parisyann · 05-02-2008, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinkerbell

Please relax - you can write what you want to write about it. I know that you aren't a specialist. I am not a specialist,too

I really wonder what you will write about these concepts. I will wait your answer

I tried to edit it before you could respond but clearly I failed so I will try again!

Not fair ok I'll try first! I think justice is the kind of thing that works really well for people in say the US... I think human rights are what are nicely protecting people too in say the EU... Democracy would be what is not doing too bad for people where it has been implemented so far and that would be all around the globe... How about you? How do you define them?

Martin · 05-02-2008, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tinkerbell

Could I ask you some questions? What do justice, human rights and democracy mean? How do you define justice, human rights and democracy?

Justice: The winner takes it all.
Human rights: Sadly, any country on this planet has its own interpretation.
Democracy: over rated at home and too expensive to be exported.

So... I won't fight for those things. But I'll fight any of you people when defending my wife and kids. For other fights I suggest you guys hire some "contracters", aka mercenaries.
Bye

Tinkerbell · 05-02-2008, 10:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parisyann

EDIT: Not fair ok I'll try first! I think justice is the kind of thing that works really well for people in say the US... I think human rights are what are nicely protecting people too in say the EU... Democracy would be what is not doing too bad for people where it has been implemented so far and that would be almost all around the globe... How about you? How do you define them?

I think If somebody doesn't apply a double standard,this is a just situation.In this context,for example,Europe Union haven't been judicious to Turkey.
According to me, human rights is an instrumental concept the same as freedom,but I can write that human rights is a situation of living in peace without using violence if it is necessary to define.
And I think democracy is a situation that people in minority can control their country the same as people in majority.