Macedonian

i think that europe will fail as a union.there are to much nationalism in europe that eventualy will destroy the union.also there is too much double standards.for example in europe are promoted human rights as something sacret.but in the other hand in Greece they denied right to minorities.so tell me how can this be european standards.i mean they have almoust fachist methods towards minorities,and this is supposed to be modern europe? how can one european country denied right to other country to chouse their name.i speak of Macedonian issue. something to think abouth europeans!

Slartibartfas

I dont know anything about those minority issues in Greece. If there are violations of human rights I would suggest going to the European court for Human Rights however, its the responsible institution. This court has however nothing to do with the European Union. As far as I know its judgments are usually followed. I know examples where the UK clashed with the court but had to finally give in and follow its judgment.

As human rights are secured by the ECfHR you hardly can blame the EU however for problems here, except if the EU itself is the root of human right violations.
When for example Greece violates EU law it will face a court trial and has to change its law in order to restore compatibility. There is no doubt about that.


Its actually funny, those nationalistic movements of rather small entities are doomed to support the EU (at least secretly). Without it most of them could not hope of being able to create a nation state on their own that would have good chances to succeed economically as well as politically on many transnational issues. (and the smaller the nation the more of them you have). Thats why they hardly can afford to see the Union fail, even if they should succeed.

The Lying Dutchman

conflicts between states like between macedonia and greece still occur, but it has nothing to de with the EU..

Goldstone69

Europe lovely place , the EU mmmmm....

BBC NEWS | Special Reports | MEPs ban allowances report

MEPs vote to cover up expenses inquiry - Telegraph

Reporter following trail of corruption in EU arrested - Telegraph

Brits at their Best

Whistle-blower admits defeat on EU corruption - Telegraph

BBC NEWS | Europe | Brussels cleaning 'fraud' probed

BBC NEWS | Europe | EU accounts failed for 13th year

Why aren't we shocked by a corrupt EU? - Telegraph

Het rapport van Paul van Buitenen over mogelijke fraude bij Europese functionarissen: How the European Commission deals with its internal irregularities and fraud

.... not so sure .

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"One must never forget that monetary union, which the two of us were the first to propose more than a decade ago is ultimately a political project. It aims to give a new impulse to the historic movement towards union of the European states. Monetary union is a federative project that needs to be accompanied and followed by other steps." — Giscard d'Estaing and Helmut Schmidt

Papillon

The European Union has its roots in closer economic co-operation between countries. It is now moving towards becoming a single superstate with subordinate member states. To achieve this end it is prepared to destroy whatever democracy is left in its formation. For example an attempt was made to introduce a Constitution for Europe and was put to referendums in several countries. It was rejected in France and Netherlands and so had to be scrapped. The European bureaucrats then used 95% of the Constitution in the Lisbon Treaty and because it is called a treaty it does not have to be passed by referendum, except in Ireland. The president of France said he would not put the treaty to a referendum because the people would vote No.
As the EU becomes consolidated it will put a strain on relations between Britain and the US as Britain cannot have a foot in two competing camps. The British Prime Minister promised a referendum on the Constitution but will not hold one on the Treaty because his opinion polls show that it would be rejected.

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The people who read the books go to the people who can't read the books, the poor people, and say, "We have to have a change." So, the poor people make the change. And then, the people who read the books, they all sit around the big polished tables, and they talk and eat and talk and eat. But what has happened to the poor people? They're dead! That's your revolution. And what happens afterwards? The same fucking thing starts all over again! -
Juan Miranda

The Lying Dutchman

'the european bureaucrats'? adjustments to the constitution where made with the consent of the governments of member states, bureaucrats have no power other than obeying the will of state governments when it comes to writing treaties. governments in europe have come to see that people have a strong sentiment against the EU, but realize themselves what consequences are of a union that doesnt want to coordinate anymore.

Slartibartfas

I refuse to read the Telegraph on European Issues with the aim of getting informations. They have printed already so much proven bullshit about it, that its not worth to be wasted time on.

I know not all of your links lead to the telegraph, but this comment is directed towards those links, that are.


Reagarding those links I read, they are about issues that are already probed. Its nothing one could be proud of, but the largest corruption on EU money still takes place not in Brussels but in the area that fall into national competences, ie its the member states themselves. The demand to abolish the EU in order to reduce the corruption is like cutting off your hand to reduce the risk of hurting it.

I am against corruption, but one does not have to resort to extreme demands like abolishing everything alltogether, to fight corruption.

Apart from that, there exist also interesting stories in parts of the Austrian europhobic magazines. They went into the Parliament restaurant and found out the "scandal" that you get there decent meals for the a prize that can be found in many company-staff restaurants. Stuff like this gets intermixed with real corruption than. That really does not help the case.

Slartibartfas

Wrong.
The EU and its predecessors were designed already right from the start as "ever closer Union", thats nothing new. Attempts for far reaching political agreements have existed already from the beginning on. Some of them failed (like the common military policies), that the political break through came not before the creation of the EU does nothing to support the claim that the way of integration has changed.

At the same time, the EU is not a single superstate. It is not today and it won't be one after the Lisbon treaty. The member states are still the highest instance of authority, as they can change the primary law of the Union and the Union can't without them.

It's not called a treaty, it is one. Many treaties have already been created, and all of them were ratified in a similar manner as the Lisbon treaty now. Some like for example the Maastricht treaty had larger implications than this Lisbon treaty now has.
The ratification of the Lisbon treaty takes place in every member state according to their own constitution. Its the business of the member states to ratify the treaty in the way the national constitution demands that.

While its not the peak of direct democracy, I just want to point out that no one could vote about the Austrian constitution, or the German one in a referendum either, when it was introduced. Are Austria or Germany undemocratic dictatorships therefore?

jaro

EU will fail definitely if Turkey is allowed to join it. I heard that in France they want to abolish some law that requires referendum to take place about each enlargement. If Turkey joins the EU, I will personally work towards dismantling it. People here don't want to be flooded with Turkish, Arab or African low skilled immigrants like in the west that have no chance to integrate. Luckily for us, right now most of them go to neighbouring Germany, Austria, UK, France, and Sweden.

No they don't need to support the EU. Even small countries can exist and prosper in free market economy. Small countries don't have the ambition to have big political influence in the world. Nationalist movements are mostly anti immigrant, do not think logically, favour protectiosm (thus damaging competitiveness of their country). Does FPO or NPD support the EU? Probably not.

I think that even if Turkey doesn't join the EU, it can still fail if integration will be too fast (which it seems to be at the moment). Another fact is neighbouring countries often don't have very good relationships. I wish it won't fail, because then the breakup will be very painful, with everybody blaming somebody else, and increase of hatred towards neighbours.

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No loyalty towards the EU.

In Russia is freedom of speech. In America is also freedom after speech. -- Yakov Smirnoff

JKD

It's improving the wealth of europe, so, it's a good thing, it's also funding a lot of things all over the place like museums, schools, football courts and all sorts.

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The Way Of The Intercepting Fist