Railway revival in Europe; will the US follow? - Political Forum

Slartibartfas · 10-21-2007, 03:48 PM

You can witness currently how all over Europe new high speed routes are planned, under construction or have opened in the last years or even decades. While the states have put quite a fair share of money into it, on the other hand they can point onto a success story as well, in France that has the leadership on this field in Europe you can observe it best. Take the line Paris-Lyon, Air France has cancelled the entire line service there if I remember correctly. The reason? The train is faster.

France is not alone however. Spain, Germany, Italy, Poland, the Benelux and others are busy in constructing a high speed network as well. And on top of that the EU finances and works towards creating those national lines into an interconnected Europe wide high speed network reach from Portugal to Poland, from Great Britain to Italy. While there are still years or more likely decades to come until this truly is reality the perspectives are fine that it will in case happen.

Air carriers at the same time have to witness how their short and partially even medium range routes within Europe start to collapse passenger wise.

This map is full of factual errors, but I think its good enough to give you an idea.

Change of location: The USA. A nation best known for the decade long downfall of a once flourishing railway system, starts to rethink its own position. While Acela has not been the model of a success story, there are other things worth to be mentioned. Regions think again about reviving abolished railway routes, trams are constructed even in cities that have never seen some before. Some might say there simply is not much left for further collapse, but others that we might witness a trend change...

What do you think? Will Europe see a pan European high speed rail network? Is the USA going to rethink its position and start to bet on the same horse as well in those areas that would have a good potential? Or public modes of rail bound transport on the road of expansion again? Has the rail passanger transport a future again? And what can or shall politics do/not do to make such a revival possible?

Wheeldog · 10-21-2007, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slartibartfas

Change of location: The USA. A nation best known for the decade long downfall of a once flourishing railway system, starts to rethink its own position. While Acela has not been the model of a success story, there are other things worth to be mentioned. Regions think again about reviving abolished railway routes, trams are constructed even in cities that have never seen some before. Some might say there simply is not much left for further collapse, but others that we might witness a trend change...

What do you think? Will Europe see a pan European high speed rail network? Is the USA going to rethink its position and start to bet on the same horse as well in those areas that would have a good potential? Or public modes of rail bound transport on the road of expansion again? Has the rail passanger transport a future again? And what can or shall politics do/not do to make such a revival possible?

In the long term, there are only two options; modernize and expand our rail system or watch our transportation system and economy grind to a halt. The fuel intensive system we have currently (trucks, autos, airlines) is clearly unsustainable in the face of declining oil availability and rising prices. Rail transportation is a tremendously more energy efficient mode of moving goods and people. I am old enough to remember traveling by train, including a trip from Pittsburgh to Seattle. I also recall electric street cars that carried inner city communters and shopers. Rebuilding this rail network will take a huge effort on the part of the national, state and local governments, but the end result will be a country once again tied together by ribbons of steel.

Slartibartfas · 10-21-2007, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wheeldog

In the long term, there are only two options; modernize and expand our rail system or watch our transportation system and economy grind to a halt. The fuel intensive system we have currently (trucks, autos, airlines) is clearly unsustainable in the face of declining oil availability and rising prices. Rail transportation is a tremendously more energy efficient mode of moving goods and people. I am old enough to remember traveling by train, including a trip from Pittsburgh to Seattle. I also recall electric street cars that carried inner city communters and shopers. Rebuilding this rail network will take a huge effort on the part of the national, state and local governments, but the end result will be a country once again tied together by ribbons of steel.

Yes, you make a good point, its not only about environment. A huge strategical aspect plays a role here as well. Do you think however, that the state (may it be the federal government or the local states or both) will step in and bring up large investments itself?

Slartibartfas · 10-21-2007, 05:32 PM

That seems to be a map that shows those corridors that might be most promissing for high speed in the US.

From the one in California I know that there are already eternal discussions about real projects in this direction. But it never took off, not yet at least.

Wheeldog · 10-21-2007, 11:17 PM

Steep decline in oil production brings risk of war and unrest, says new study | Special reports | Guardian Unlimited

Quote:

World oil production has already peaked and will fall by half as soon as 2030, according to a report which also warns that extreme shortages of fossil fuels will lead to wars and social breakdown.

The mainstream news media seems to finally becoming aware of the implications and tremendous importance of the world oil supply problem. Hopefully, as the general public begins to wake up to the issue there will be political pressure to rebuild our national rail system. It cannot happen too soon. Within a very short time the existing transport system could be exhibiting symptoms of strain.

Slartibartfas · 10-22-2007, 05:07 AM

I just wonder if this issue is something that doesn't bother many people except you and me...

LessGovMrPrez · 10-22-2007, 09:30 AM

That would be neat to get here in the USA. I still would never use it though.

Slartibartfas · 10-22-2007, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LessGovMrPrez

That would be neat to get here in the USA. I still would never use it though.

Lets make a hypothesis:
You want to go from city A to B that are lets say 800 km (or around 500 miles) away from each other. The train is as fast as flying and ways faster than driving, gets you from center to center, no security queues and no traffic jam, you have plenty of foot space, can go to a dinner wagon or simply do your office work on the notebook (or whatever else you want to do) during the ride.

And you still would not use it? Why?

LessGovMrPrez · 10-22-2007, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slartibartfas

Lets make a hypothesis:
You want to go from city A to B that are lets say 800 km (or around 500 miles) away from each other. The train is as fast as flying and ways faster than driving, gets you from center to center, no security queues and no traffic jam, you have plenty of foot space, can go to a dinner wagon or simply do your office work on the notebook (or whatever else you want to do) during the ride.

And you still would not use it? Why?

Price. I dont travel on airplanes when I take the family on vacation now, why would I take a train? I can save money by just driving where I want to go. Sure it will take longer but cheaper is better for me. Now someone else might want to take itand that is fine, kudos to them.

Slartibartfas · 10-22-2007, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LessGovMrPrez

Price. I dont travel on airplanes when I take the family on vacation now, why would I take a train? I can save money by just driving where I want to go. Sure it will take longer but cheaper is better for me. Now someone else might want to take itand that is fine, kudos to them.

If you make a full cost calculation, taking the car is not cheaper than taking the train; at least in Europe. I can't comment on how far this would be the case in the US in case you would have a comparable high speed system to Europe. Your extremely low energy prices (yet) might make a difference, perhaps. But when I think about how fuel hardly makes up about 1/3 of the running costs of a car, I would not be sure if it really makes that large difference.

But you make a good point. It often boils down to the price for many people.