A Practical Energy Source - Political Forum

Wheeldog · #1 (**permalink**) 10-08-2007, 12:43 AM

Quote:

"Tritt said more than 60 percent of the energy that goes into an automotive combustion cycle is lost, primarily to waste heat through the exhaust or radiator system.

“Even at the current efficiencies of thermoelectric devices, 7 to 8 percent, more than 1.5 billion gallons of diesel could be saved each year in the U.S. if thermoelectric generators were used on the exhaust of heavy trucks. That translates into billions of dollars saved,” Tritt said.

This approach would appear to have real promise in gaining greater efficiency from internal combustion engines. Most car and truck engines get less than 40% efficiency out of the fuel they burn. Even increasing that by a few per centage points would save well over a billion gallons of fuel each year. It certainly won't solve all of the problems we will face, but it sounds like an excellent idea.

texas_tank · #2 (**permalink**) 10-08-2007, 12:45 AM

but will it happen?..

no..

we could switch to ethanol right now, without any reprecusions, in fact it would benefit the american economy.

Wheeldog · #3 (**permalink**) 10-08-2007, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texas_tank

but will it happen?..

no..

we could switch to ethanol right now, without any reprecusions, in fact it would benefit the american economy.

Ethanol comes with a host of problems. First, it is has considerably less energy than an equal amount of gasoline or diesel. That means that you have to burn more of it. Second, it has an extremely low energy return on investment. It takes amost as much energy in the form of fertilizers, irrigation, pesticides, fuel for farm machinery, transport to refineries, refining, etc. as it returns in useful fuel. Third, crops and productive agricultural lands devoted to the production of fuel means that less food will be produced. That will lead to higher prices and, in poorer countries, possible famine. There are no free lunches when it comes to energy.

counterpointing · #4 (**permalink**) 10-08-2007, 03:46 AM

I want an electric car. They are improving fast. I saw one on You Tube beat a Ferrari in a race.

It’ll be about one cent a mile when the car companies decide to sell them.

dahermit · #5 (**permalink**) 10-08-2007, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MountainMike

Re. Ethanol

Corn Ethanol is not cost effective without heavy government subsidies. Ethanol derived from cellulose (switchgrass, crop and lumber wastes) is different. We need to switch to switchgrass. There has been a recent breakthrough in developing bacteria to breakdown switchgrass into a hydrocarbon fuel. I hope to hear more about this project soon.

While Ethanol would help reduce dependence on oil, using if for fuel in autos results in more carbon dioxide emissions from the exhaust than does gasoline. You will solve one problem, but not the other with using gasoline.

Oregon Elephant · #6 (**permalink**) 10-08-2007, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by counterpointing

I want an electric car. They are improving fast. I saw one on You Tube beat a Ferrari in a race.

It’ll be about one cent a mile when the car companies decide to sell them.

What was the race? An electric car can only get $.01 - .02 to the mile if it is one of the tiny cars (like smart cars), but people who use trucks (like pickup trucks, not Big Rigs) would probably get around .03 - .04 to the mile. And that is still great, don't get me wrong, I'm all for it.

texas_tank · #7 (**permalink**) 10-09-2007, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oregon Elephant

What was the race? An electric car can only get $.01 - .02 to the mile if it is one of the tiny cars (like smart cars), but people who use trucks (like pickup trucks, not Big Rigs) would probably get around .03 - .04 to the mile. And that is still great, don't get me wrong, I'm all for it.

dont expect to see it in our lifetime.

Oregon Elephant · #8 (**permalink**) 10-09-2007, 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by texas_tank

dont expect to see it in our lifetime.

Why not, they already have them.

texas_tank · #9 (**permalink**) 10-09-2007, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oregon Elephant

Why not, they already have them.

and when did they first develope, and model the first ethanol fueled cars?.. its been a while since then..

or has it?..

im not stating, im asking.. in no sarcastic manner..

counterpointing · #10 (**permalink**) 10-09-2007, 12:34 AM