Political Forum



Dear guest,

Welcome to the internet's top destination for the civil discussion of politics. This is a forum for discussion and debate of the issues, and not for personal remarks aimed at other discussants.

This forum has no political affiliation and welcomes your perspective on the issues. Membership is free. If you would like to join the discussions and debates please REGISTER HERE.

All new members should review the forum rules. The "Today's Posts" button automatically adjusts itself to fit your screen on its first use for Firefox and on its second use, for Internet Explorer. Have a pleasant day. (This is a spam free board.)

Old 05-11-2007, 07:55 AM   #1 (permalink)
Governor General
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 767
outlaw oil time to bring electric cars in!

NASA study: Eastern U.S. to get hotter By SETH BORENSTEIN, AP Science Writer
Thu May 10, 5:57 PM ET



WASHINGTON - Future eastern United States summers look much hotter than originally predicted with daily highs about 10 degrees warmer than in recent years by the mid-2080s, a new NASA study says.

ADVERTISEMENT

Previous and widely used global warming computer estimates predict too many rainy days, the study says. Because drier weather is hotter, they underestimate how warm it will be east of the Mississippi River, said atmospheric scientists Barry Lynn and Leonard Druyan of Columbia University and NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies.

"Unless we take some strong action to curtail carbon dioxide emissions, it's going to get a lot hotter," said Lynn, now a scientist at Hebrew University of Jerusalem. "It's going to be a lot more dangerous for people who are not in the best of health."

The study got mixed reviews from other climate scientists, in part because the eastern United States has recently been wetter and cooler than forecast.

Instead of daily summer highs in the 1990s that averaged in the low to mid 80s Fahrenheit, the eastern United States is in for daily summer highs regularly in the low to mid 90s, the study found. The study only looked at the eastern United States because that was the focus of the funding by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency, Lynn said.

And that's just the eastern United States as a whole. For individual cities, the future looks even hotter.

In the 2080s, the average summer high will probably be 102 degrees in Jacksonville, 100 degrees in Memphis, 96 degrees in Atlanta, and 91 degrees in Chicago and Washington, according to the study published in the peer-reviewed journal Climate.

But every now and then a summer will be drier than normal and that means even hotter days, Lynn said. So when Lynn's computer models spit out simulated results for July 2085 the forecasted temperatures sizzled past uncomfortable into painful. The study showed a map where the average high in the southeast neared 115 and pushed 100 in the northeast. Even Canada flirted with the low to mid 90s.

Many politicians and climate skeptics have criticized computer models as erring on the side of predicting temperatures that are too hot and outcomes that are too apocalyptic with global warming. But Druyan said the problem is most computer models, especially when compared to their predictions of past observations, underestimate how bad global warming is. That's because they see too many rainy days, which tends to cool temperatures off, he said.

There is an established link between rainy and cooler weather and hot and drier weather, said Kevin Trenberth, climate analysis chief at the National Center for Atmospheric Research. Rainy days means more clouds blocking the sun and more solar heat used to evaporate water, Druyan said.

"I'm sorry for the bad news," Druyan said. "It gets worse everywhere."

Trenberth said the link between dryness and heat works, but he is a little troubled by the computer modeling done by Lynn and Druyan and points out that recently the eastern United States has been wetter and cooler than expected.

A top U.S. climate modeler, Jerry Mahlman, criticized the study as not matching models up correctly and "just sort of whistling in the dark a little bit."

But Andrew Weaver of the University of Victoria, editor of the journal Climate but not of this study, praised the paper, saying "it makes perfect sense."

He said it shows yet another "positive feedback" in global warming, where one aspect of climate change makes something else worse and it works like a loop.

"The more we start to understand of the science, the more positive feedbacks we start to find," Weaver said.

Weaver said looking at the map of a hotter eastern United States he can think of one thing: "I like living in Canada."

___
Wolfman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2007, 10:23 AM   #2 (permalink)
Baron
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Pensacola, FL
Posts: 1,114
Country:
How are you going to get the electricity for electric cars? Currently, over 50% of our electricity comes from coal and natural gas.
perdidochas is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2007, 10:41 AM   #3 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Maine, USA
Posts: 1,758
That's an absolutely horrible idea. We need to have as many different fuels sources as possible. If we were to go oil-only, it would be easy for our enemies to bring us to ruin. If we were to go to electric-only, it would be far easier for our enemies to bring us to ruin. Foreign countries could refuse to sell us oil and hold us captive, especially if we became truly dependent on oil (which we are *not* right now). If we went all-electric, it would be ridicilously easy for foreign countries to shut down our cities through subversive acts.
Troianii is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2007, 11:32 AM   #4 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Slartibartfas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Vedunia
Posts: 4,950
Country:
Country:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troianii View Post
That's an absolutely horrible idea. We need to have as many different fuels sources as possible. If we were to go oil-only, it would be easy for our enemies to bring us to ruin. If we were to go to electric-only, it would be far easier for our enemies to bring us to ruin. Foreign countries could refuse to sell us oil and hold us captive, especially if we became truly dependent on oil (which we are *not* right now). If we went all-electric, it would be ridicilously easy for foreign countries to shut down our cities through subversive acts.
Isnt that a bit paranoid, to believe that your enemies could or would want to pay the price for shutting down a large number of your electricity infrastructure? (keep in mind that if you would turn towards electric cars you'd need easily many times more power plants that you currently have)
It would be far far easier to simply block the resources on which your power plants run, well at least cause severe shortages.

But you are right. The idea to switch completely to electric cars makes no sense at all. At least as long as electricity uses to a large extend non fossile sources.
__________________
"Every country gets the cuisine it deserves"

Common insult examples and how to avoid them
Slartibartfas is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:00 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.1.0
A vBSkinworks Design
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=

right