Downside Of Ethanol - Political Forum

CHUQ · 01-06-2007, 05:51 AM

There is a downsize, then where to go from here.

DES MOINES, Iowa - The rapidly growing demand for corn to produce ethanol is greater than the government realizes and could drive up food prices because of livestock feed shortages, an agricultural economist said Thursday.

Lester Brown, founder of the Earth Policy Institute, a Washington-based environmental think tank, warned that nearly twice as much corn as the government has estimated will be needed from the 2008 harvest to feed the ethanol plants that will be online by then. He blamed the lag on the failure of industry trade groups to keep up with development of ethanol plants.

KnoxNews: Business

CHUQ · 01-06-2007, 05:54 AM

Just an add on to the previos post--what alternatives will be the best?

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Rocky Mountain News - Denver and Colorado's reliable source for breaking news, sports and entertainment: Opinion

Tumbleweed · 01-06-2007, 07:33 AM

You don't suppose the solution would be to grow more corn ?

CHUQ · 01-06-2007, 07:53 AM

Tumble--you know it cannot be that simple. LOL

Tumbleweed · 01-06-2007, 10:02 AM

As a state that has a good size agriculture base, Maine has the abilty to contribute to an increase in production of corn. The potato industry has been on the decline for quite awile now with a lot of good farmland ending up growing bach into bushes and trees. We could actually use a good rotation crop if someone could change the mindset of the local farmers.

Otter · 01-06-2007, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.E.B. Du Bois

My question follows.

It takes fuel to grow corn. You gotta use energy to pump the gas to water the crops, create and transport the fertilizer, harvest and process the corn.

After all that is done, we put the corn and get a return in energy.

Now is that energy greater than or less than the energy used to make the corn?

It sounds like it's much more efficient to make the ethanol, and even better if lignin is used, rather tha corn. I wonder how difficult the conversion is to install in a car?

Quote:

Producing a gallon of ethanol gas from corn requires 95 percent less petroleum than producing a gallon from fossil fuels, a new study finds.

LiveScience.com - Ethanol Fuel More Advantageous Than Thought

Otter · 01-07-2007, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tumbleweed

As a state that has a good size agriculture base, Maine has the abilty to contribute to an increase in production of corn. The potato industry has been on the decline for quite awile now with a lot of good farmland ending up growing bach into bushes and trees. We could actually use a good rotation crop if someone could change the mindset of the local farmers.

You know, tobacco is also declining. We could grow corn instead of tobacco, here.

Slartibartfas · 01-07-2007, 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.E.B. Du Bois

My question follows.

It takes fuel to grow corn. You gotta use energy to pump the gas to water the crops, create and transport the fertilizer, harvest and process the corn.

After all that is done, we put the corn and get a return in energy.

Now is that energy greater than or less than the energy used to make the corn?

Its nice to see one to ask the very basic question once.

The answer is: it depends.

First of all it depends on what you are growing and what fuel exactly you make out of it. I have heard from someone that it can cause an 1:4 energy surplus. (I hope I remember correctly)

Apart from the specifics of the plant and the type of fuel the very central factor is the transport. If you carry the stuff from one side of America to the other one, you will have a negative result. That means we are talking here about a decentral form of energy. We need small to medium facilities spread over the whole country in order that it makes sense.

I personally think that at least in Europe the politicians have hidden agricultural subsidies in mind when fostering biodiesel for example. I just hope they have considered the studies also. Because there exist quite a considerable amounts about the very question you posted WEB.

What makes sense for sure though is that farmers grow their very own fuel. That has a strategic aspect too. Just think about it. No oil crises, no matter how severe can stop this farmer from using his machines anymore. Its a major step to increase the stability of your food supply.

PS:
For those who dream of completely replacing gas through biodiesel, I guess I have to disappoint you. Your farmers dont even have enough capcities for only producing enough for all your cars. Even if you would stop completely growing food.

george.d · 01-07-2007, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slartibartfas

PS:
For those who dream of completely replacing gas through biodiesel, I guess I have to disappoint you. Your farmers dont even have enough capcities for only producing enough for all your cars. Even if you would stop completely growing food.

There were lots of jokes about that on economic lists when it became apparent the US public had again been duped. The US literally covered with corn fields, US oil companies and agribusiness mergers while the US imports food.

Seems the US public can be sold anything by carefully wrapping it in a flag with the implication of non-patriotism for not supporting it.

Tumbleweed · 01-07-2007, 10:35 AM

Another use for corn that is sometimes overlooked is that it can also be used as a fuel to heat homes. If it was used on a larger scale I would think it could also be used to generate electricty.