presluc

I hear a lot of people today saying America is doing well from outsourceing because they get cheap prices for products made overseas.
However it is my opinion that this is a shell game being played by corporations.
Although America does have stores that have cheap prices.
I think if you ask any working person would they drather have cheap prices and low paying jobs or high prices and good paying jobs you know what the answer would be.
In my opinion it is a matter of want and need better paying jobs would get you what you need and you could save for what you want.
Gentlemen and ladies I await your comments or veiws on this subject.
Personally I think I'm going to get hammered, but as the saying goes if you can't stand the heat?

top gun

WHAT AN IDIOT... no I'm just kidding because you said you'd get hammered.
You make a great point. It's a very slippery slope. We outsource... so we can then buy products cheaper... but then we have less jobs to make the money to buy them at all.

The flip side is protectionism. We make almost all our own stuff... we have a lot of jobs but our decent standard of living labor costs keep prices sky high... we keep cheap imports out so they can't compete with our more expensive stuff... but then other countries won't buy any of our stuff... and the rest of the world buys and sells similar goods amongst themselves at a much cheaper price than we can.

If ever there was a balancing act this is it. I think you have to take away many of the incentives for companies to move overseas. The thing you see a lot is a company that's making tons of profit moves overseas to make even more money because of cheap labor. That's just wrong. If they move because they want to stay in business and they can't in the US that's a little different. There has to be ways to tax break struggeling businesses to keep them alive here and not reward profitable ones for leaving. You also have to negotiate some decent trade policies. You can level the playing field a little by tariffing things coming into the country. But you can't do it so much that the other countries get it right back by tariffing you to death either.

presluc you highlighted the real question... are people willing to pay more? Good but difficult topic!

dahermit

Free trade/out sourcing will result in the eroding of the standard of living of the American working class until it is close to that of a third world country. Sadly, neither Republican, Democrat or Libertarian parties share that view.
Regards,
dahermit

presluc

The american worker can't compete with foreign workers now.
You cannot live in America making 50 cents an hour.
But what concerns me is the other side of the coin the corporations side.
Oh, I know their making lots of money with cheap labor overseas now, but what about the long run,or as tthe CEO'S say the big picture.
America a nation of hard workers and good people with ideas, but what was the number one car sold in the U.S. WELL IT WASN'T FORD it was Toyota.
The vidieo game industry brings in 50 billion dollars a year how much is controlled by American corporations I give you hint think small.
The corprations have to adapt to compete with foreign conglomerates.
If we can't level the playing feild in the working class and the U.S. CORPORATIONS with foreign countries everybody from the top down is going to lose money and most important RESPECT.
Build all the houses you want, but if people start getting scared and saving money instead of buying houses nobody wins.

presluc

I don't mind free trade just as long as it's fair trade.
As far as outsourceing you're hireing people to do cheap labor do you actually beleive anybody working for a corporation overseas is going to contribute any ideas to that corporation?
Do you think they actually care about doing a better job for America?
HELL NO, and if I had a job here paying more than I usualy get working for a foreign company which do you think I would put first the Foreign company or America my home?

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary

I do think that outsourcing serves to primarily benefit corporations and foreign countries. Foreign countries only benefit a little, since they are being paid slave wages by our standards, but even those slave wages were probably better than what they were earning before (or not earning at all).

In the long run though, what happens is that the foreign country becomes more modern and develops more capital and they require more skilled labor, and labor becomes more scarce relative to capital. This drives wages up.

Although we get shafted in the short term by outsourcing to China, and to some extent India, in the long run, I think we'll all be better off by it.

__________________
Forum Rule 3: Discuss the Issue, not your opponent.

presluc

It is true we got shafted by outsourceing to China and India and some other countries.
I do not think we will be better off from this, there is one factor to consider.
No corporation is going to pay higher wages without a fight, you don't just walk up to the boss and say "give everybody a raise,and better benefits"
One thing you must remember when strikes got too bad in the U.S. the national guard was called in to protect both sides and prevent violence.
When a corporation outsources their factory it is on foreign turf, if the leader of a foreign country has to choose between making American investors more money or keeping the people happy and keeping his job which do you think he\she will choose.

top gun

Everyone's making good points on this one.

presluc worrying about the American workers.

W.E.B. saying that it's the corps. and not the other countries that are really cleaning up.

Dahermit seeing the possibility of too much out sourcing dragging America down.

The way it's supposed to work "in theory" is in a global economy eventually every countries standard of living and as follows wages come up to a more equal standard and goods trade at a more fair and equal rate for everybody.

That's a great theory but there's a whole lotta "what ifs" in there... and a real long time to go.

I'll give you an example. Big book binding company here in the midwest builds a plant in Mexico and moves the operation down there to make a better profit. After 10 or 15 years now they're looking to move to China.

There's just such a long way to go and so many poor countries that will work for nothing because they have nothing. Plus it's not a great position for a country to get into where they're all about the service industry and agriculture. Most historians blame that type of situation as one of the main problems the South had during the American Civil War.... and as we know... didn't work out too well for them.

presluc

A good point, but eventually these third world countries are gonna start to get wise.
In other words somebody is going to say we should get more money, and that will lead to trouble not for the American worker but the corporations.
You are forgeting about how revolutions start some guy like Castro, Jarez, Itola kimani, Lenin they talk to people to let them know what's wrong with the current system of government.
In todays modern age of internet comunication people can be reached faster.
And to say that everybody working in an American factory overseas will remain happy at the wages set by the corporation WELL, I don't think so.
I suppose you're wondering why I would use the word revolution.
Two questions 1 what is the main cause that would make people start a revolution.
2 During a revolution what's the first target overall of the people in general.

top gun

1) money... standard of living

2) the government