Good article to show there is no true free market in the U.S - Political Forum

Truth-Bringer · 05-05-2008, 11:19 AM

I talk to so many liberals/collectivists/statists who just don't get it - MEGA CORPORATIONS USE THE GOVERNMENT TO DESTROY THEIR COMPETITION - OTHERWISE THAT FREE MARKET COMPETITION WOULD KEEP PRICES LOW AND QUALITY HIGHER. This story is the PERFECT example:

Dairy Industry Crushed Innovator Who Bested Price-Control System

In the summer of 2003, shoppers in Southern California began getting a break on the price of milk.

A maverick dairyman named Hein Hettinga started bottling his own milk and selling it for as much as 20 cents a gallon less than the competition, exercising his right to work outside the rigid system that has controlled U.S. milk production for almost 70 years. Soon the effects were rippling through the state, helping to hold down retail prices at supermarkets and warehouse stores.

That was when a coalition of giant milk companies and dairies, along with their congressional allies, decided to crush Hettinga's initiative. For three years, the milk lobby spent millions of dollars on lobbying and campaign contributions and made deals with lawmakers, including incoming Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.).

Last March, Congress passed a law reshaping the Western milk market and essentially ending Hettinga's experiment -- all without a single congressional hearing.

"They wanted to make sure there would be no more Heins," said Mary Keough Ledman, a dairy economist who observed the battle.

Rest of Article Here

Pander · 05-09-2008, 11:24 PM

"They wanted to make sure there would be no more Heins," said Mary Keough Ledman, a dairy economist who observed the battle.

I was just wondering if you could post the link from which the main article came from. It sounds interesting and I would like to read a little more into this .... much appreciated =)

presluc · 05-11-2008, 04:38 PM

Mega corporations stoped paying windfall taxes.
Mega corporations have painted this picture of using cheap overseas labor to produce cheap prices for the American consumer, but to be an American consumer you must have a decent job.

Yet the government keeps saying buy American products.
Since American products are made oveerseas and foreign products are made overseas what's the differance?

When the factories were here I and many others stayed loyal to American corporations,and bought American products, but why should the American consumer remain loyal now?

Dr House · 05-11-2008, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by presluc

Mega corporations stoped paying windfall taxes.
Mega corporations have painted this picture of using cheap overseas labor to produce cheap prices for the American consumer, but to be an American consumer you must have a decent job.

Yet the government keeps saying buy American products.
Since American products are made oveerseas and foreign products are made overseas what's the differance?

When the factories were here I and many others stayed loyal to American corporations,and bought American products, but why should the American consumer remain loyal now?

And again we come back to free trade.

Fact 1: We are the second-exporter exporting nation in the World after China, and the second-largest exporter per capita after Germany. Exports also accounted for 35% of GDP growth in 2007.

Fact 2: The decline of manufacturing employment in the last 2-3 decades has more to do with efficiency increases than offshoring. Since 2000 we have lost 11% of our manufacturing jobs. China has lost (yes, lost) 15%. What's more, our 11% loss is on par with the global average.

Fact 3: We get jobs insourced from other nations, not just outsourced. And while the number of jobs insourced is smaller than the number of jobs outsourced, the gap is narrowing fast. According to the Organization for International Investment, the number of jobs from foreign subsidiaries in the US is growing at a rate of 5.5% a year, compared to an offshoring growth rate of 1.5% a year. And on average, insourced jobs pay 30% than domestic ones. And yes, we're getting manufacturing jobs insourced. We are a major production center for European and Japanese cars for export, among other things.

-Dr House

FRYandBENDER · 05-11-2008, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truth-Bringer

I talk to so many liberals/collectivists/statists who just don't get it - MEGA CORPORATIONS USE THE GOVERNMENT TO DESTROY THEIR COMPETITION - OTHERWISE THAT FREE MARKET COMPETITION WOULD KEEP PRICES LOW AND QUALITY HIGHER. This story is the PERFECT example:

Dairy Industry Crushed Innovator Who Bested Price-Control System

In the summer of 2003, shoppers in Southern California began getting a break on the price of milk.

A maverick dairyman named Hein Hettinga started bottling his own milk and selling it for as much as 20 cents a gallon less than the competition, exercising his right to work outside the rigid system that has controlled U.S. milk production for almost 70 years. Soon the effects were rippling through the state, helping to hold down retail prices at supermarkets and warehouse stores.

That was when a coalition of giant milk companies and dairies, along with their congressional allies, decided to crush Hettinga's initiative. For three years, the milk lobby spent millions of dollars on lobbying and campaign contributions and made deals with lawmakers, including incoming Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.).

Last March, Congress passed a law reshaping the Western milk market and essentially ending Hettinga's experiment -- all without a single congressional hearing.

"They wanted to make sure there would be no more Heins," said Mary Keough Ledman, a dairy economist who observed the battle.

Rest of Article Here

Hmm. This sounds eerily like part one of Atlas Shrugged.

presluc · 05-12-2008, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr House

And again we come back to free trade.

Fact 1: We are the second-exporter exporting nation in the World after China, and the second-largest exporter per capita after Germany. Exports also accounted for 35% of GDP growth in 2007.

Fact 2: The decline of manufacturing employment in the last 2-3 decades has more to do with efficiency increases than offshoring. Since 2000 we have lost 11% of our manufacturing jobs. China has lost (yes, lost) 15%. What's more, our 11% loss is on par with the global average.

Fact 3: We get jobs insourced from other nations, not just outsourced. And while the number of jobs insourced is smaller than the number of jobs outsourced, the gap is narrowing fast. According to the Organization for International Investment, the number of jobs from foreign subsidiaries in the US is growing at a rate of 5.5% a year, compared to an offshoring growth rate of 1.5% a year. And on average, insourced jobs pay 30% than domestic ones. And yes, we're getting manufacturing jobs insourced. We are a major production center for European and Japanese cars for export, among other things.

-Dr House

America is borrowing money from other countries not too many other countries borrowing money from America..
I disagree with your assesment of imports coming to America vs exports going to other countries.
You must remember imports are made and ditributed by foreign countries American products are made in foreign countries and disributed by American corporations, so in fact to export from America corporations must import the finished product from foreign cheap labor.

Dr House · 05-12-2008, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by presluc

America is borrowing money from other countries not too many other countries borrowing money from America..

That I won't disagree with. We need to balance the budget, we need to cut spending.

Quote:

I disagree with your assesment of imports coming to America vs exports going to other countries.
You must remember imports are made and ditributed by foreign countries American products are made in foreign countries and disributed by American corporations, so in fact to export from America corporations must import the finished product from foreign cheap labor.

Wait... what? You're saying that we're not making anything just re-exporting finished products? Or what are you saying?

TheHat · 05-13-2008, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truth-Bringer

I talk to so many liberals/collectivists/statists who just don't get it - MEGA CORPORATIONS USE THE GOVERNMENT TO DESTROY THEIR COMPETITION - OTHERWISE THAT FREE MARKET COMPETITION WOULD KEEP PRICES LOW AND QUALITY HIGHER. This story is the PERFECT example:

This is exactly what I have been saying for years! But people dont want to believe it.

Government regulations cater to these mega companies as well. Hell they help the government create the regs to their own benefit.

So when John Doe wants to start his own business, his start up costs are so high it makes it difficult to get ahead b/c you start out in the hole. Government regs kill the little guy but the big guys dont have a problem b/c they have been around long enough to be cushioned from the new regs.

Same goes for foreign aid to 3rd world countries. We give millions and billions to these dictators to give to the people yet they keep it for themselves and it never gets to the little guy, plus the 3rd world worker and owner cant compete with the government which can give the people stuff for free and keep them enslaved, while they try and sell their stuff at a higher cost to the governments freebees. So dictators stay in power and the people cant find work.

Quote:

Dairy Industry Crushed Innovator Who Bested Price-Control System

In the summer of 2003, shoppers in Southern California began getting a break on the price of milk.

A maverick dairyman named Hein Hettinga started bottling his own milk and selling it for as much as 20 cents a gallon less than the competition, exercising his right to work outside the rigid system that has controlled U.S. milk production for almost 70 years. Soon the effects were rippling through the state, helping to hold down retail prices at supermarkets and warehouse stores.

That was when a coalition of giant milk companies and dairies, along with their congressional allies, decided to crush Hettinga's initiative. For three years, the milk lobby spent millions of dollars on lobbying and campaign contributions and made deals with lawmakers, including incoming Senate Majority Leader Harry M. Reid (D-Nev.).

Last March, Congress passed a law reshaping the Western milk market and essentially ending Hettinga's experiment -- all without a single congressional hearing.

"They wanted to make sure there would be no more Heins," said Mary Keough Ledman, a dairy economist who observed the battle.

Rest of Article Here

Cant say anything more then this. Goes along the lines of the people who started a shuttle company in NY to compete with the transit/bus system there. They could do it better at a better price and the city of NY shut them down b/c it took money away from the governmetn coffers.

In every industry, the government has some kind of standard set up to where you have to buy certain products from certain companies b/c they own the patent. So Billy Bob Tech, who sells a great motor that can do the exact same job, if not better job, as the government stamped model can sell his to the general public b/c it doesnt have the seal of approval by the government. So what does he do to survive? He shelves his own product and starts buying the government stamped product, thereby costing we the consumers more b/c the government and the company that are cohorts have a monopoly on the motor state or nationwide.

So what happens to competition? It dissolves into a giant cluster(*&^. Instead of allowing people to make and produce things, whereby they must compete, not to mention sell we the consumer a product that is cost effective to us, we have to go with the government stamped model which is usually not as good, but makes the government & their company money. It is like the Mafia moved from organized crime to organized government mandates on businesses and the people pay the price for it.

If you are wondering why I know so much about this, it is b/c I am a regulator myself.

Oh you can buy the non-government approved model, but then you can never be approved for things like permits, electric, etc. It is crazy but true.

louie · 05-13-2008, 10:30 AM

Why the focus on Big Companies. The U.S. economy has never been a free market. Government regulations and controls are in place in most aspects of our economy. Trades requiring a government license are a form of market control. If you have not read the book "Commanding Heights" I would recommend it. It has good insight on markets.

I have tried to think of historical situation where human intervention on the markets ended in an outcome that was better than what the free market would have provided. Every thing that we do to affect the market will have an opposite effect. The supply and demand equation must always be equal. Even though there is strong evidence that a free markets work well, it scars the S@#$T out of people. People want to feel in control.
Whether the intent is to control prices as shown above or to limit the highs and lows of the market the outcome is in most cases bad for the consumer.
Just my thoughts.

presluc · 05-13-2008, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr House

That I won't disagree with. We need to balance the budget, we need to cut spending.

Wait... what? You're saying that we're not making anything just re-exporting finished products? Or what are you saying?

Well let me run this list by you.

Manufacturing= cheap foreiign labor majority of products
Computers cheap foreign labor majority of products
T.V,s=cheap foreign labor majority of products
Cars= cheap foreign labor majority of products
Vidieo games= cheap foreign labor majority of products
Clothes= cheap foreign labor majority of products
That's not even counting foreign sales repesentitivs for phone solisitation, off shore banking or the electronoc industry as a whole.

Prove me wrong on any of this list I'll be a happy man.