Caltex

[quote=Future Leader;169931][quote=Truth-Bringer;169832] the Supreme Court has ruled that the police have no obligation or liability in protecting the general public.To catch the perpetrators of crimes.

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TheHat

The government taxes us and then takes that tax and gives it to other private organizations for their own benefit, sometimes for their own survival. How is that a need of the government or how does that help the government function?


Industrilization was no cause to create taxes. That is a coup out. What taxes do we really need? Why do we need more taxes? When will enough be enough?


It is seperate. It has been seperate since the Civil War, which is when all these wonderful taxes began to crop up b/c little do people realize that the Civil War was the end of the original USA in terms of state rights being the more powerful b/w it and the then de-centralized, limited federal government. Since the end of the Civil War the federal government has taken on a life of its own, with ever encroaching powers upon the Constitution and taxation toward the people.

If you are saying that we the people elect the shmucks in office then fine by me, I will agree there. But, the people are constantly lied to concerning policy matters and taxation methods, so therefore it cannot be laid at our feet b/c we are being deceived and manipulated into siding with these unjustified causes from the start.

Truth-Bringer

You're paying them because if you don't, they'll send armed men to your house to take the money. You're paying under threat of force, and under direct force if the threat isn't sufficient.

Truth-Bringer

Yes, the government is separate from the people, especially the people who don't vote or who vote against candidates that failed to win, as Lysander Spooner correctly noted -

1. The act of voting can bind only those who vote, and who win the vote.
2. Most people do not vote in any given election; many people never vote. Therefore, they have not consented.
3. To be binding, a vote must be “perfectly voluntary” yet a “very large number” vote in self-defense.
4. Taxation is compulsory and many vote only to prevent their money from being used against them.
5. Votes for unsuccessful candidates cannot be binding.
6. A secret vote provides no legal evidence by which to bind any particular voter to the alleged "social contract" or Constitution.

Future Leader

If taxation is such a crime then why is Wesly Snipes going to jail for not paying taxes? Couldn't he just use the evidence you are bringing up to show that taxation is a crime? then he would be off the hook.

Truth-Bringer

Because courts only have to accept legal arguments - not arguments based on logic and reason. And unfortunately, the law does not always equate to logic and reason.

Now, if we're speaking specifically about the income tax, the income tax is a complete and total fraud. It is based on deception, and the only reason it stays in place is due to the ignorance of the majority of people and the corruption in our court system and government.

Anyone can find this out for themselves if they do a Freedom of Information Act request on their IRS Individual Master Files and properly decode them.

From the Handbook for Special Agents, page 9781-51, 334.112
The Individual Master File Section:

"(1) The Individual Master File is a magnetic tape record of all individual income tax filers in Social Security Number sequence, and is maintained at the National Computer Center.

The Individual Master File is designed to accumulate in each taxpayer's account all data pertaining to the income taxes for which the taxpayer is liable. (Gets tricky when you start chasing down the definitions for exactly who is a "taxpayer" and who is "liable" for what)

The taxpayer information stored in the master computer for each IMF may be understood only by a careful and tedious process of decoding by references to the explanations contained in the IRS 6209 Manual, IMF Operations Manual, Law Enforcement Manual, and several other manuals published by the Service for the instruction and guidance of its personnel."

This creates a prime facie case against you in court, because the IRS takes these Individual Master Files in against you.

Prime facie cases must be REBUTTED.

The IMF files are a "Rebuttable Presumption" in the law of evidence.

If you do not rebut them, they are said to have "Presumptive Correctness" in any court action against you.

Why is this important? Because the courts have already ruled on the matter:

"Government prevails in challenge to individual’s appeals hearing in which master file transcripts were considered at hearing instead of tax returns." - Stanifird v. Wilcox et al. 87 AFTR2d Par. 2001-1058 June 12, 2001.

Decode your IMF and you will find the truth. Listen to the truth that leaks out from a former chief of the IRS's Freedom of Information Act branch:

"The overwhelming majority of taxpayers appear to be perfectly willing to face serious adverse action without bothering to make any significant effort to learn what the agency knows about them or how they came to be in that situation. In fact, even subjects of major criminal investigation seldom bother to make such inquiries, apparently being willing to face trial and risk imprisonment without writing a simple letter which could produce information which could literally save their freedom.”

- Marcus Farbenblum, Chief of the Freedom of Information Branch, IRS National Office, from his book, “The I.R.S. and the Freedom of Information and Privacy Act of 1974,” regarding FOIA requests

Now if someone doesn't pay their taxes and is charged with a crime, why is this IRS chief at the FOIA office telling people they "could literally save their freedom" by writing a simple letter requesting information from a Freedom of Information Act?

Think about it. The only possible explanation is that something is indeed hidden in their Individual Master File which would prove they don't owe the tax.

geofree33

Some taxes can serve a purpose beyond funding the government. Taxing land value while abolishing all other taxes would lead to more efficient land usage.

Consider what Henry George wrote in Progress and Poverty, Chapter 33:

discoman

Taxes must be increased now!.Or America's economy may suffer.

geofree33

Simply increasing our current taxes isn’t going to do any good. We need to change WHAT we tax. Income and sales taxes are harmful to the economy, and are a leading cause of poverty. We can and should abolish these taxes; replacing them with a tax on natural resources.

Taxing the economic rent of natural resources makes it possible to fund the government with no income or sales taxes and without increasing the price of consumer goods. The land value tax would simply take what is now being forked over to landowners in the form of rent and divert it into the public funds.

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Whenever there is in any country, uncultivated lands and unemployed poor, it is clear that the laws of property have been so far extended as to violate natural right. The earth is given as common stock for man to labour and live on. -- Thomas Jefferson to James Madison, Fontainebleau, Oct. 28, 1785

"As soon as the land of any country has all become private property, the landlords, like all other men, love to reap where they never sowed." -Adam Smith

sooxiwei

It depends...some times...when tax payment is use wisely by the government to benefit the people either informally or formally, it is not a robbery, if the tax payment is use for stupid things to benefit individual(most of the time, politician in power), it is really a robbery, like what is happening in Malaysia all the time...