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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2008, 04:55 AM
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I feel a strong urge to laugh whenever I hear "z0mg Americans owe (really big number)". What desperately seems to need clarification is that the US is a nation of economic superlatives. We have the highest GDP in the World at $14.1 trillion, nearly $10 trillion ahead of our nearest rival (Japan). We also have one of the 10 highest GDPs per capita in the World at $43,500, and the World's third-largest population at 300 million people. Factor that in and the $915 billion credit card debt becomes $3,050 per capita, or 7% of per capita output and 10% of average salary. Hardly an unmanageable amount, and indeed an indicator of great fiscal restraint, since we actually charge over $2,000 a year per capita on credit cards.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2008, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr House View Post
I feel a strong urge to laugh whenever I hear "z0mg Americans owe (really big number)". What desperately seems to need clarification is that the US is a nation of economic superlatives. We have the highest GDP in the World at $14.1 trillion, nearly $10 trillion ahead of our nearest rival (Japan). We also have one of the 10 highest GDPs per capita in the World at $43,500, and the World's third-largest population at 300 million people. Factor that in and the $915 billion credit card debt becomes $3,050 per capita, or 7% of per capita output and 10% of average salary. Hardly an unmanageable amount, and indeed an indicator of great fiscal restraint, since we actually charge over $2,000 a year per capita on credit cards.
It's awesome that some people can remain optimistic... but we are honestly beyond that now. No one (not even Bush anymore) is saying that things are okay. They are not okay. We are in trouble.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 03-17-2008, 08:14 PM
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it's only temporary, the financial collapse will kill lots of GDP and add more debt

Dr House failed to mention world's biggest debtor nation and holder of the world's reserve currency, it's help us get where we are, but it is only temporary.
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Old 03-18-2008, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Izzibeth View Post
It's awesome that some people can remain optimistic... but we are honestly beyond that now. No one (not even Bush anymore) is saying that things are okay. They are not okay. We are in trouble.
Of course we're not ok. We just had a financial crisis, for chrissakes. Japan took 15 years to recover from theirs, we're certainly in for a bumpy ride.

But "the end is near" predictions just don't hold. We're not gonna have a financial collapse any time soon.
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Old 03-18-2008, 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted by pedex View Post
it's only temporary, the financial collapse will kill lots of GDP and add more debt

Dr House failed to mention world's biggest debtor nation and holder of the world's reserve currency, it's help us get where we are, but it is only temporary.
Are we the World's biggest debtor nation as a percent of GDP? Like I already established, that's the real relevant question.
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Old 03-18-2008, 02:06 AM
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Of course we're not ok. We just had a financial crisis, for chrissakes. Japan took 15 years to recover from theirs, we're certainly in for a bumpy ride.

But "the end is near" predictions just don't hold. We're not gonna have a financial collapse any time soon.
I believe you are whistling in the dark, although I certainly hope you are right. This is more than just a simple financial correction that will quickly pass. This is becoming an economic avalance picking up mass and momentum as it moves. It will take more than financial snowballs to stop it. Indeed, it may simply have to run its course, and we will have to weather it.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2008, 02:43 AM
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Politician X : “There is light at the end of the Tunnel!”
Observant Citizen Y : “Yeah… It’s the head-light of a bullet train coming in.”
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Old 03-18-2008, 05:30 AM
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I think I posted a thread on this subject before.
My question is all those times in the past 7 yrs that Americans were told that the economy is fine no problem,ect.
Did that have anything to do with the credit card debt?
I mean if you have a credit card and are told the economy is great you might think well I'll just charge this and pay it off later.
Oh I know there's the responsibility factor, but if you can't trust politicians? WELL? lol,lol,lol


The economy is cyclical. It goes through cycles, it will always have ups and downs.

But, in response to your statement/question, I don't think that's the case. If I'm working at KFC (which I am, and going to college full-time) and the economy is fantastic, that doesn't have anything to do with my ability to pay off any debt that I will incur. If someone tells me that the economy is great and that convinces me to go out on a spending spree with a credit card then I'm the one to blame for stupidity.


To the OP, it'd be good to actually know how this is spread. If you factor it out this is roughly $3000 debt per person. I'm sure that the wealthy on average have a credit card debt of more than $3000 (though most of them probably don't have any credit card debt at all), and so the average credit card debt for the lower and middle income classes probably isn't anywhere near this figure. It's alarming, but not as alarming as it is on face.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 03-18-2008, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Wheeldog View Post
I believe you are whistling in the dark, although I certainly hope you are right. This is more than just a simple financial correction that will quickly pass. This is becoming an economic avalance picking up mass and momentum as it moves. It will take more than financial snowballs to stop it. Indeed, it may simply have to run its course, and we will have to weather it.
Personally, I think people are scared and oversensitive about things that are really rather minor, like a 3k/capita credit card installment debt. We're gonna have a recession, that's been all but scheduled since the real estate market crashed. However, we're not heading to a depression. The juggernaut that is the American economy is tougher than that, proof is that we actually registered positive growth for 2007. That is no small feat considering the economy hit a very big valley from which to climb out of when the bubble burst.
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Old 03-24-2008, 01:37 AM
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how hard is it to pay off creadit cards??????
when i was younger and had a credit card i was kinda stupid and ended up 5k in the hole. guess what less then 2yr later i was out fo the red and deep into teh black ink.
its really not that har. it just ppl are not willing to do it. to them its too hard.
its too hard to give up the luxaries they like to enjoy even when they are flat broke. now i uderstand special cases liek a single parent with 3 kids etc.. but on other are 2 parent families or singles that are in debt. i use to worked for 10/hour when i got myself out of debt. i rented my own apartment had my own car i even enjoyed going to each expensive meals such as sushi( $60+ per person) every once in a while to treat myself..

most ppl have a problem saving because ethey dont think $1 is anything. at one point in my life thats about what i spend for a meal. reman noodles and a little veg and meat in the soup.:P

there was an artical a bit ago about s collage kid who decided to do an experiment after he graduated.
he had like 25 dollars in his pocket and went to a city where he didnt know anyone. his goal was to have a place to live a car and 2.5k saved up in 1 year i think it was.


here is teh artical

ABC News: Building a Life on $25 and a Gym Bag


Building a Life on $25 and a Gym Bag
College Graduate Leaves Comfortable Life for Poverty Experiment

By PETER SMITH
Feb. 17, 2008
Font Size

Alone on a dark gritty street, Adam Shepard searched for a homeless shelter. He had a gym bag, $25, and little else. A former college athlete with a bachelor's degree, Mr. Shepard had left a comfortable life with supportive parents in Raleigh, N.C. Now he was an outsider on the wrong side of the tracks in Charles¬ton, S.C.

But Shepard's descent into poverty in the summer of 2006 was no accident. Shortly after graduating from Merrimack College in North Andover, Mass., he intentionally left his parents' home to test the vivacity of the American Dream. His goal: to have a furnished apartment, a car, and $2,500 in savings within a year.

To make his quest even more challenging, he decided not to use any of his previous contacts or mention his education.

During his first 70 days in Charleston, Shepard lived in a shelter and received food stamps. He also made new friends, finding work as a day laborer, which led to a steady job with a moving company.


Ten months into the experiment, he decided to quit after learning of an illness in his family. But by then he had moved into an apartment, bought a pickup truck, and had saved close to $5,000.

The effort, he says, was inspired after reading "Nickel and Dimed," in which author Barbara Ehrenreich takes on a series of low-paying jobs. Unlike Ms. Ehrenreich, who chronicled the difficulty of advancing beyond the ranks of the working poor, Shepard found he was able to successfully climb out of his self-imposed poverty.

He tells his story in "Scratch Beginnings: Me, $25, and the Search for the American Dream." The book, he says, is a testament to what ordinary Americans can achieve. On a recent trip to the Boston, he spoke about his experience:

Becoming a mover and living in a homeless shelter – that hadn't been part of your life before. How much did your lifestyle actually change?

Shepard: It changed dramatically. There were simple luxuries that I didn't afford myself. I had to make sacrifices to achieve the goals that I set out. One of those was eating out. I didn't have a cellphone. Especially in this day and age, that was a dramatic change for me.... I was getting by on chicken and Rice-A-Roni dinner and was happy. That's what I learned ... we lived [simply], but still we were happy.


But surely your background – you're privileged; you have an education and a family – made it much easier for you to achieve.

I didn't use my college education, credit history, or contacts [while in South Carolina]. But in real life, I had these lessons that I had learned. I don't think that played to my advantage. How much of a college education do you need to budget your money to a point that you're not spending frivolously, but you're instead putting your money in the bank?

Do you need a college education?

I don't think so. To be honest with you, I think I was disadvantaged, because my thinking was inside of a box. I have the way that I lived [in North Carolina] – and to enter into this totally new world and acclimate to a different lifestyle, that was the challenge for me.

Still, there was that safety net. Were you ever tempted to tap your past work, education, or family networks?

I was never tempted. I had a credit card in my back pocket in case of an emergency. The rule was if I used the credit card then, "The project's over, I'm going home."


So what did you tell people when they asked what you were doing?

That was the only touchy part of my story. I had this great back story on how I was escaping my druggy mom and going to live with my alcoholic dad. Things just fell apart, and there I was at the homeless shelter. I really embellished this fabricated story and told it to anyone who would listen.

The interesting thing is that nobody really cared.... It wasn't so much as where we were coming from, it was where we were going.

Would your project have changed if you'd had child-care payments or been required to report to a probation officer? Wouldn't that have made it much harder?

The question isn't whether I would have been able to succeed. I think it's the attitude that I take in: "I've got child care. I've got a probation officer. I've got all these bills. Now what am I going to do? Am I going to continue to go out to eat and put rims on my Cadillac? Or am I going to make some things happen in my life...?" One guy, who arrived [at the shelter] on a Tuesday had been hit by a car on [the previous] Friday by a drunk driver. He was in a wheelchair. He was totally out of it. He was at the shelter. And I said, "Dude, your life is completely changed." And he said, "Yeah, you're right, but I'm getting the heck out of here." Then there was this other guy who could walk and everything was good in his life, but he was just kind of bumming around, begging on the street corner. To see the attitudes along the way, that is what my story is about.

You made it out of the shelter, got a job, and opened a bank account. Did you meet other people who had similar experiences?

Oh, absolutely. We don't need "Scratch Beginnings" to know that millions of Americans are creating a life for themselves from nothing.... Just as millions of Americans are not getting by. There are both ends of the spectrum.


To meet that guy [in the wheelchair] at the shelter, [makes you wonder] 'Can he get out and go to college and become a doctor?' Maybe, maybe not. I think he can set goals..... You can use your talents. That's why, from the beginning, I set very realistic goals: $2,500, a job, car. This isn't a "rags-to-riches million-dollar" story. This is very realistic. I truly believe, based on what I saw at the shelter ...that anyone can do that.




that is an inspiring story to me on how with determination anyone could do this..
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