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With the whole CIA waterboarding, tape story going on in the news I thought this would be a good time too revisit the waterboarding issue. There are two questions I think people should ask and they are is waterboarding torture. In addition, the second one being does it work?
As far as the first question goes I would say no if you define they way those on the anti waterboarding side want us too. It seams as if any form of discomfort is torture. For example is putting terrorist is a cold room torture? What about a dark one or a tight cell or putting on loud music
We cant except the CIA just to talk to the brutal emery we are facing they have to have some other tools at their hands especially when lives are on the line. Now I am against torture unless their bomb about to go off in a city or something and you have no other choice.
However waterboarding is use on are most evil foes and the CIA should be able too use it.
The second question is dose it work and I would say Yes because if it did not we would have stopped using it. Also Tenet and the former head of the UBL unit said it works.
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Tim-"I assume you have a long list of benevolent nations and peoples who circle the globe, bestowing gifts on the human race from the purest of motives - in contrast with those terrible Americans, whose motives and behavior are always suspect"? :rolleyes
I'd like to see some evidence as to how effective torture is, that is: how often are what we are told is the truth, or if it's simple what we want to hear (so they can, you know, stop being tortuted). I think once there is something empirical to argue upon then the discussion will be interesting.
__________________ "The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom."
Isaac Asimov
I'd like to see some evidence as to how effective torture is, that is: how often are what we are told is the truth, or if it's simple what we want to hear (so they can, you know, stop being tortuted). I think once there is something empirical to argue upon then the discussion will be interesting.
Hey EP long time no debate
Anyway Tenet said waterboarding works so did the former head of the UBL unit
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Tim-"I assume you have a long list of benevolent nations and peoples who circle the globe, bestowing gifts on the human race from the purest of motives - in contrast with those terrible Americans, whose motives and behavior are always suspect"? :rolleyes
It's a form of torture. Debating whether its effective, etc. is a waste of time, unless you want to debate passing an amendment to allow certain types of torture, torture is unconstitutional.
What an interesting word! I was always taught that holding a cloth over someone's face and pouring water over it was called "the chinese water torture"!!
Waterboarding is just a name the admin came up with so that they could call it "harsh interrogation" instead of torture.
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What an interesting word! I was always taught that holding a cloth over someone's face and pouring water over it was called "the chinese water torture"!!
Waterboarding is just a name the admin came up with so that they could call it "harsh interrogation" instead of torture.
Exactly. Somehow torture is en vogue again after we banned it over 200 years ago.
@ Hotduck, I want something empirical, not subjective. Yes, tapping Tenet is fine and is good for an intro. to your case, but I want something concrete -- cases and examples in the past of what actually happened. How do we know what we are getting is the truth and not just what we want to hear?
Agreed with Caltex. Why is this even up for discussion for allowance? I thought we as a civilization were past this.
__________________ "The saddest aspect of life right now is that science gathers knowledge faster than society gathers wisdom."
Isaac Asimov
According to ABC News: CIA's Harsh Interrogation Techniques Described, water boarding is when prisoner is bound to an inclined board, feet raised and head slightly below the feet. Cellophane is wrapped over the prisoner's face and water is poured over him. Unavoidably, the gag reflex kicks in and a terrifying fear of drowning leads to almost instant pleas to bring the treatment to a halt.
That's a little more than mere "discomfort", is it not ?
__________________ Scotsgait has got a new look. Gaun an hae a neb at it !
There should be no debate here. Once we start using torture for "national security" or any other reason, this nation no longer becomes worth defending.
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