J.Locke777

This thread is the result of being asked by someone to reveal my position on this issue. As far as I can remember, I've never done so.

Here's my basic position. Personally, I think homosexuality is pretty disgusting. It is a practice in which I would never partake in. Theres just something about having butt-sex with another guy that I don't find attractive in the least bit.

However, professionally, I respect diversity. Just because I hold myself to a higer "moral" standard, doesn't mean I can expect the same from everybody else. Honestly, if two men or two women can seriously fall in love, then they should have the ability to marry and to be with eachother for as long as they like. Just as I love women, and one day, plan to marry one, I wouldn't want that infringed on, so I can identify with the Gay Rights point-of-view.

Also, I want to add that some of the nicest people I've known have been homosexuals.

So the bottom line is that I do not approve of the homosexual lifestyle, however, I respect the persons who choose to live that way.

Your thoughts and stances on the subject?

__________________
~John Locke

Discuss the Issue, Not the Poster

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not everyone is entitled to their own facts"
-Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

"Great thoughts speak only to the thoughtful mind, but great actions speak to all mankind."
-Teddy Roosevelt

africanhope

Thank you for your open an honest post. It would e a bit strange if I totally agreed with you, as I am gay, I guess, but let me begin my saying I do not find heterosexuality disgusting. But I can understand that you find homosexuality disgusting, the sexual side of it, if I undderstand you correctly, disgusting.

I really do not mind if that is people's thought on the matter. I do not want homosexuality shuffed down everyone's throats. I do not want everyone to think our way is great. I just want the right to be happy, with the person I choose. So the way you have spelled out your views above, is fine.

But please do allow me some comments and questions:
1. What do you mean with homosexual lifestyle? Are you refering to the sexual side of things?
2. Not to fall into that debat, which is raging somewhere else, but you mention choice, so I just want to know, as this is a thread on your views on the matter, if you think it is a choice?

Again, thank you for you very honets, open and quite fair post on this issue.

AH

Ps. I always love the 'some of the nicest people I know are homosexual' part. It is like we hear frm quite a few white folks here these days 'some of the nicest people I know are black...'

lol

__________________
“The subject no longer has to be mentioned by name. Someone is sick. Someone else is feeling better now. A friend has just gone back into the hospital. Another has died. The unspoken name, of course, is AIDS.”
“From the point of view of the pharmaceutical industry, the AIDS problem has already been solved. After all, we already have a drug which can be sold at the incredible price of $8, 000 an annual dose, and which has the added virtue of not diminishing the market by actually curing anyone.”

J.Locke777

[quote=africanhope;102830]
But please do allow me some comments and questions:
Yes AH, I'm referring to the sexual lifestyle. Aside from that, from my experiance, both lifestyles are more or less the same.Well, personally, I don't care whether homosexuality is a choice, genetic, enviornmental, or anything else it may be. The fact is that the individuals are homosexual and that's that. Based on my experiance here in America, I notice that homosexuality in many people seems to be more of a trend than an actual scientific trait. Obviously, this is not the case for everyone, but it is true for a large number.
No problem, sexual orientation is a non-issue to me, which is why I rarely, if ever post on it. To me, it doesn't matter if someone's gay, lesbian, straight, or A-sexual. As long as they get the job done in the work enviornment, and are plesant people in a more neighborhood or personal level enviornment.

Yeah, I thought about that, but my audiance (I'm assuming) is predominatly straight. My favorite elementary school teacher, my JH chorus teacher, and my 7th grade science teacher. All are very high ranking on my list of favorite people, so I wanted to give them some credit. Even if they'll never see it. In fact, for the majority of those people, I didn't know they were gay/lesbian untill after I was out of their class. Of course, once I found out, I was able to put the pieces together, but it didn't effect how I thought of them at all.


PS. I just wanted to go on the record here and add that I am a devoted christian. I am pretty liberal for a christian, but then again, not everyone can be a hypocrate like so many other christians we hear about.

__________________
~John Locke

Discuss the Issue, Not the Poster

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not everyone is entitled to their own facts"
-Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

"Great thoughts speak only to the thoughtful mind, but great actions speak to all mankind."
-Teddy Roosevelt

africanhope

THat clears it up, thank you. Funnily enough, we mostly agree. I do not know why it matters whter it is a choice or genetics. And it is actually a bit of a non-starer for me, but because I am emotionally involved, I do take part in the debate from time to time, but neverstart one (exceptthe one of Dumbledor being gay, butthat was just teasing).

And I was just kidddingon the 'nicest people' bit. Hey, some of the nicest people I know were straight, for heavens sake, I was raised by straight people, so I am very open minded!

lol

AH

__________________
“The subject no longer has to be mentioned by name. Someone is sick. Someone else is feeling better now. A friend has just gone back into the hospital. Another has died. The unspoken name, of course, is AIDS.”
“From the point of view of the pharmaceutical industry, the AIDS problem has already been solved. After all, we already have a drug which can be sold at the incredible price of $8, 000 an annual dose, and which has the added virtue of not diminishing the market by actually curing anyone.”

J.Locke777

haha, yeah, actually, the people who give me the most heat for having those positions are my fellow christians. A fact that I alluded to earlier.

Do you mind if I ask you a few questions? if not, just don't answer them.

1. When did you first become aware that you were homosexual? If there is one, was it a gradual process, or a definate turning point?

2. I assume you were raised in a heterosexual enviornment, if so, what was that like? What were some of the psycological difficulties you can remember having before you "came out"?

These are pretty personal, so if you don't want to answer these, I won't be offended. I'm actually genuinely curious, seeing as I can't easily identify with the psycological processes you've experianced.

__________________
~John Locke

Discuss the Issue, Not the Poster

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not everyone is entitled to their own facts"
-Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

"Great thoughts speak only to the thoughtful mind, but great actions speak to all mankind."
-Teddy Roosevelt

africanhope

Ah, wow, come on, my questions were a lot easier than that!! No, I do not mind asnwering, as this is a anonomous forum. So here we go: (phew)

1. As background - I was born into and raised in a very devout Christian home, and in a very difficult time of my countries history. My parents raised us in the church (twice every Sunday). It is a strict Calvanist church, so guilt and all thatis quite important!

I first started really thinking about it when I was 19 or 20. Looking bck, I can see the signs from younger, butI was either too stupid to realise it, or jut ignored it. But at 19 i realised that the atraction to guys aretruly there. But at that stage I was at university studying to become a minister. (just for cleareance, my troubles with my faith started a bit earlier than that). Because I was raised to believe it was horrible, and i would go to hell. I've spend hours in tearfull prayer, asking to be cured. I tried everything, short of having sex with girls. (as this is ofcourse a sin too!). At 25, i could take it no longer. I went away to my favourite place on earth, the Drakensberg mountains, and had a long hard wrestle with myself. I realised I was gay, and that was that.(again, for clearance, this ofcourse influnced my faith, but is not even close to being the only or ven main reason I am no longer a Christian).

2. No the even more diddicult one. I am not out. I mean, I am out to many friends, and am in a relationship, and am quite hppy, but I am not out to my parents. Now I get a lot of grief on this. But allow me to clarify. I have great parents. They raised me to think for myself in a tim this was not done in our country. but this, this would be difficult for them.

Let's take them one at a time. My father. People tel me I exagerate when I say I will not tell him because I fear what he would do, untill they meet him. Then they fully agree with me. If I say he would beat me up, I do not mean it as colourfull language, I honsetly fear he would. (or try to, he is not as strong as he used to be of course). Not that my dad is violent or anything, but he is a very difficult person, and would not be able to accept it. At the best, he would turn his back on me, and neverwant to have nything to do with me ever again.

My mother. She is British, and the a truly great mother. I also kno she knows, and she knows I know she knows, but we do not talk about it. My reasoning here is as follows. She is a devout Christian, who would honestly believethat I would go to hell if I am gay. This would beso horrible for her, thinking her youngest id going to burn. So I'd rather that she suspect tan know. Second, i respect the sancity of marriage. I can not expect my mother to keep a sectret form my father. So I'd rather not discuss it with her.

Many call me a coward. Gay people fight with me, saying I am a disgrace to the cause. Straight people tell me I am not acting out of love, and my parents deserveto know. I think it should always be a personal choice, based on the circumstances the person him or herself knows best. I chose not to tell them. My borther never had to sit them down, and tell them he likes girls. So why should I.

I have rule, not only with my parents, but with everyoe. I am not a flag waver. I just don't go up to people and tell them I am gay. But if asked, even by my father, I would be open and hoest about it.

Lastly, yeah, it is hell. I would like them to share in my joy and pain. When my boyfriend of 6 years left me, I would have loved for my mom to hold me and tell me it will be fine. I would love to introduce them to the great new person in my life. I hate to keep things from them, as I love them with all my heart. But that, is how it is.

This is probably more than you had in mind, sorry about that!!!

AH

__________________
“The subject no longer has to be mentioned by name. Someone is sick. Someone else is feeling better now. A friend has just gone back into the hospital. Another has died. The unspoken name, of course, is AIDS.”
“From the point of view of the pharmaceutical industry, the AIDS problem has already been solved. After all, we already have a drug which can be sold at the incredible price of $8, 000 an annual dose, and which has the added virtue of not diminishing the market by actually curing anyone.”

J.Locke777

Wow, that is some very interesting insight into your situation. I hope you'll forgive me, but I wish to dwell over this and respond to it later in the day. This of course being because it is very late, or rather, very early over here.

It sounds as if you will have a fair amount of difficult things to deal with in the future. I wish you the best, and until I can give a full reply, know that you have my support for your journey that you are already undertaking, and have much left to venture.

__________________
~John Locke

Discuss the Issue, Not the Poster

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not everyone is entitled to their own facts"
-Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

"Great thoughts speak only to the thoughtful mind, but great actions speak to all mankind."
-Teddy Roosevelt

africanhope

I await that reply then. I ahve to actuallys tart doing some real work over here, so I might notreply when you send it, but i will!

So I will not say anything untill that time except this - I did say it is hell, but that came out wrong. I wantedto say how I would have loved for them so know everything about their child, so that is hell for me, but as a whole, it is not that bad, and I have a good and happy life.

AH

__________________
“The subject no longer has to be mentioned by name. Someone is sick. Someone else is feeling better now. A friend has just gone back into the hospital. Another has died. The unspoken name, of course, is AIDS.”
“From the point of view of the pharmaceutical industry, the AIDS problem has already been solved. After all, we already have a drug which can be sold at the incredible price of $8, 000 an annual dose, and which has the added virtue of not diminishing the market by actually curing anyone.”

J.Locke777

AH,

That is truely an amazing and powerful testimony. I do notice that one glaring detail stands out. The fact that over there, the church does allow homosexuals to worship there.

As a christian, I feel anger towards the church, because they gave you the wrong message. Homosexuality, according to christianity, is a sin. Lust and greed also happen to be sins, however, many christians take it upon themselves to "rank" the gravity of the sins. Christian doctrine teaches that it does not matter how one sins, it matters that we sin. One sin is enough to separate a human from God. Therefore, I find it hypocritical to bar homosexuals from the church. After all, I'm guilty of my own sins, but did those same people not teach that Jesus died to forgive ALL sins? Therefore, it doesn't matter if one is homosexual or not, all persons are equal in the eyes of God. If a homosexual desires to learn about God, Let them in, and don't judge them based on their sexual orientation.

Anyway, that's what I would tell you from the religious angle.

You seem to have a lot that you will need to deal with in the future, and I truely pray that it all works out for you, and that you find happieness in the end.

__________________
~John Locke

Discuss the Issue, Not the Poster

"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not everyone is entitled to their own facts"
-Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan

"Great thoughts speak only to the thoughtful mind, but great actions speak to all mankind."
-Teddy Roosevelt

That Darn Republican

I cannot find a point to disagree with that, the act [in itself] is reprehensible. Now this may not reflect [entirely] on the people who practice it, but if you have to go there and resort to that type of sexual act for gratification... then that is the area of rebellion in their lives they have to deal with that others don't have to tolerate or accept.

Here is where we to part ways on a point, the liberal language of diversity means accept our lifestyle. Ok... well that would mean that the lifestyle would have to have a value enough for those who do not practice it to warrant protecting it, and in considering the number of states that have batted down attemps by radical gay lobbyists to foist such legislation on the general public have failed miserably, so clearly that is not the case. Even in the ranks of the left -- they are drawing a line between the extremism and just plain liberal. There is no value in the act but for those who engage in the behavior. So diversity in itself with that as a backdrop needs no social consideration. I have heard it said [and I agree] that diversity breeds perversity - in this case they are exactly right. No one has a right to be gay... no one. Our laws don't protect lifestyle hetero or homosexual, if the behavior is permissible by the culture of the day that permits it - fine, that was their cultural choice. But most cultures that are not rule of law based legally tend to allow it, but also those cultures are no longer around either. Our government's role at its core it to make sure that future generations aren't missing on the same quality of freedom's enjoyed by previous generations.

That is the strength of the Equal Protection clause, it guarantees same law yesterday, today and tomorrow... not protect my lifestyle equally and normalized in with natural biological procreation that is the basis for growth of the nation. Which is the reason licenses are granted in the first place. It is confusing when presented to children who's minds aren't capable of understand what is underneath the alternative presentation. So, I disagree with your position on same-sex marriage, licenses are issued for marriage... driving, brokering and etc. on grounds of moral turpitude, and may be revoked if violated. It is antithetical to growth to permit such the dissolution of an institution that has done nothing to the extreme homosexual lobby but bring them life. Let it be, A standard is a standard for a reason, however if you practice homosexuality do I advocate people going out of their way to make those who engage in the act feel bad? No, that is hardly the Christian thing to do - and there is no Christ like witness in anyone bearing that type attitude toward anyone gay or straight. But there are actions and reactions... a reaction is negative response to a given stimuli or simply being unprepared, and action is the appropriate, measured response to a given stimuli or being prepared. When someone reacts to someone's homosexuality... are they reacting? No, there is a natural stigma there for a reason... let it be, they are acting out based on their organic gender role to soemthing exactly the opposite of how they got here and shouldn't be demonized for it. That is the rhetoric of extremists, and [however] does not represent the majority of homosexuals on the issue of tolerance.

__________________
- That Darn Republican


"If it is new, it cannot be truth... and if it is truth, it can not be new" -anon