White Privilege and Male Privilege - Political Forum

Crystal · 07-09-2007, 04:20 AM

I feel ignorant, although my eyes have been opened to some things regarding race. I'm still trying to take it all in and figure out how my daily experiences and my particular circumstances compare with the author's. I am wondering how much of this essay is true and how much of it would apply to different countries - both male privilege and white privilege. When comparing myself to males, I can't say I've ever felt disadvantaged, even though people tell me I am. When comparing myself to blacks (or any other race), I've never felt like I have the advantage, even though others tell me I do. Are the situations listed below really "privileges" and things white people and/or males take for granted?

White privilege

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White Privilege and Male Privilege by Peggy McIntosh
Through work to bring materials and perspectives from Women's Studies into the rest of the curriculum, I have often noticed men's unwillingness to grant that they are over privileged in the curriculum, even though they may grant that women are disadvantaged. Denials that amount to taboos surround the subject of advantages that men gain from women's disadvantages. These denials protect male privilege from being fully recognized, acknowledged, lessened, or ended.

Thinking through unacknowledged male privilege as a phenomenon with a life of its own, I realized that since hierarchies in our society are interlocking, there was most likely a phenomenon of white privilege that was similarly denied and protected, but alive and real in its effects. As a white person, I realized I had been taught about racism as something that puts others at a disadvantage, but had been taught not to see one of itscorollary aspects, white privilege, which puts me at an advantage.

I think whites are carefully taught not to recognize white privilege, as males are taught not to recognize male privilege. So I have begun in an untutored way to ask what it is like to have white privilege. This paper is a partial record of my personal observations and not a scholarly analysis. It is based on my daily experiences within my particular circumstances.

...

1. I can, if I wish, arrange to be in the company of people of my race most of the time.
2. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area that I can afford and in which I would want to live.
3. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.
4. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.
5. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.
6. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization", I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.
7. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.
8. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.
9. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods that fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can deal with my hair.
10. Whether I use checks, credit cards, or cash, I can count on my skin color not to work against the appearance of financial reliability.
11. I can arrange to protect my children most of the time from people who might not like them.
12. I can swear, or dress in second-hand clothes or not answer letters without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty, or the illiteracy of my race.
13. I can speak in public to a powerful male group without putting my race on trial.
14. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.
15. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.
16. I can remain oblivious of the language and customs of persons of color, who constitute the worlds' majority, without feeling in my culture any penalty for such oblivion.
17. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.
18. I can be sure that if I ask to talk to "the person in charge" I will be facing a person of my race.
19. If a traffic cop pulls me over, or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.
20. I can easily buy posters, postcards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys, and children's magazines featuring people of my race.
21. I can go home from most meetings or organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in rather than isolated, out of place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance, or feared.
22. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having coworkers on the job suspect that I got it because of race.
23. I can choose public accommodations without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.
24. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help my race will not work against me.
25. If my day, week, or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it has racial overtones.
26. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color that more or less matches my skin.

I had posted this over on another forum (in case your curious about the responses over there) and I am curious about responses from here.

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · 07-09-2007, 01:05 PM

In my opinion there are several aspects of why it is good to be white.

* Social privilege: I feel very awkward when I am in a room full of white people....VERY awkward. That's not just because I am paranoid about white folks, but I can tell that people look at me as an outsider. Now you see that wouldn't be a problem IF it only happened once in a while, but given that white people are the majority in the country, it tends to happen too often. I have had very smart friends who left the college I was in because they were just too ostracized by the majority of white folks who attended the school.

* Economic position: Other than that, white people have the privilege of growing up in nice neighborhoods, in nice schools, with parents who have good jobs in safe and wholesome neighborhoods. There's jobs avaialble and you have ready transportation to get to those jobs. I don't think it works that way in the hood where there's less jobs, the schools suck, the neighborhood is dangerous and the overall shittiness of the situation leads to more vice and family deterioration.

I cannot speak too much as to why it is good to be a male. I think women got it pretty good.

WEB

presluc · 07-09-2007, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by W.E.B. Du Bois

In my opinion there are several aspects of why it is good to be white.

* Social privilege: I feel very awkward when I am in a room full of white people....VERY awkward. That's not just because I am paranoid about white folks, but I can tell that people look at me as an outsider. Now you see that wouldn't be a problem IF it only happened once in a while, but given that white people are the majority in the country, it tends to happen too often. I have had very smart friends who left the college I was in because they were just too ostracized by the majority of white folks who attended the school.

* Economic position: Other than that, white people have the privilege of growing up in nice neighborhoods, in nice schools, with parents who have good jobs in safe and wholesome neighborhoods. There's jobs avaialble and you have ready transportation to get to those jobs. I don't think it works that way in the hood where there's less jobs, the schools suck, the neighborhood is dangerous and the overall shittiness of the situation leads to more vice and family deterioration.

I cannot speak too much as to why it is good to be a male. I think women got it pretty good.

WEB

I take it you've never been to eastern Kentucky if you aren't born into a rich family you got three careers to chose Coalmine, Moonshine, Welfare.
And the houseing in that part of the country can be just as bad as the "hood", and since most kids are working by the time their 15 education more or less takes a back seat,and anyway the school system isn't just overflowing with money.
Coarce you could say why not just move, but then one might ask the same question of those living in the "hood".

FRYandBENDER · 07-09-2007, 02:07 PM

It's awesome being a white male. I'm going to pick up my obligatory million dollar check here in a little while.

presluc · 07-09-2007, 02:14 PM

Abla Espainal? lol,lol,lol

emptypepsi · 07-09-2007, 02:37 PM

Funny, presluc.

Anyway, I'm mixed ethnicity and personally, I don't tend to feel too ostrasized by the majority of people. I didn't grow up in a great neighborhood or anything, but we made it to school and my folks made it to work okay regularly.

@ W.E.B., I enjoyed hearing your social perspective. I don't ever feel that I'm viewed by an 'outsider' so to speak upon people seeing me, but only when they learn of my mixed ethnicity. Oddly enough, it's hispanics that give that reaction. Of course, I live in a different area than you with different demographics, and Hispanics are in texas with large numbers, so I am not quite in a minority here.

presluc · 07-09-2007, 02:46 PM

I meant no disrespect.
Ny point was if this "male privilege" is in order does this mean the illeagal male immigrants get to go through the fence first?

panteth4h2o · 07-09-2007, 02:53 PM

I can't speak from a white perspective, but nor can I speak from a black perspective either. I guess I'm somewhat in between, because I'm Hispanic. In my life, I've sometimes been able to fit in among both to some degree, but not entirely, which explains why I only ran around with other Hispanics as a teenager, which is where I felt more at home. My one advantage of being Hispanic is that I sometimes get to hear what whites have to say about certain blacks when they aren't around, and I also get to hear what blacks have to say about certain whites when they walk off.

So I will only respond to the following points based on the perspective of a Hispanic. I will not speak for either side:

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2. If I should need to move, I can be pretty sure of renting or purchasing housing in an area that I can afford and in which I would want to live.

This is not the case with everyone in my family, but those who work hard and stay out of trouble have usually been able to move into a middle class neighborhood.

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3. I can be pretty sure that my neighbors in such a location will be neutral or pleasant to me.

I've had a few occasions where I've been suspicious of prejudice white folks, who are usually old and cranky; but other than that, I've had fairly nice neighbors. (as long as I keep my lawn kept and abide by city ordinances concerning my dogs

)

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4. I can go shopping alone most of the time, pretty well assured that I will not be followed or harassed.

I've had a few instances of this, but it hasn't been often. Sometimes those Arabs and Koreans at the family owned convenience stores can over do it; but then again, I consider the fact when they are in high crime areas. *shrugs*

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5. I can turn on the television or open to the front page of the paper and see people of my race widely represented.

I've thought of this in terms of television programs, but not the newspaper. Sometimes it's the case with magazines, but they are making more of an effort to be inclusive of race.

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6. When I am told about our national heritage or about "civilization", I am shown that people of my color made it what it is.

Yeah, that's definitely true! To this day, I'm amazed about what I learn in terms of black history, and what they have contributed to our society.

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7. I can be sure that my children will be given curricular materials that testify to the existence of their race.
8. If I want to, I can be pretty sure of finding a publisher for this piece on white privilege.

I don't know what to think about those statements, especially number 7.

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9. I can go into a music shop and count on finding the music of my race represented, into a supermarket and find the staple foods that fit with my cultural traditions, into a hairdresser's shop and find someone who can deal with my hair.

I don't know. Rap is pretty popular these days, even among the white folks. I think this could be demographic, in some cases. For instance, in terms of food, some supermarkets will generally adjust their items to the surrounding neighborhood in terms of culture. If I go to a Latin part of town, I'm pretty much guaranteed not to find anything that is Fat Free (which frustrates me!); and they have loads of items that are going to sell to the Latin community, even music.

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12. I can swear, or dress in second-hand clothes or not answer letters without having people attribute these choices to the bad morals, the poverty, or the illiteracy of my race.

There is probably some truth to this.

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14. I can do well in a challenging situation without being called a credit to my race.

That would definitely irk the hell out of me, but I'm not sure how much it happens.

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15. I am never asked to speak for all the people of my racial group.

That's true.

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17. I can criticize our government and talk about how much I fear its policies and behavior without being seen as a cultural outsider.

Probably true. I think it depends on what's being discussed.

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18. I can be sure that if I ask to talk to "the person in charge" I will be facing a person of my race.

I tend to notice this more in lower skilled jobs, where whites will usually be in charge of unskilled workers who are all a different race.

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19. If a traffic cop pulls me over, or if the IRS audits my tax return, I can be sure I haven't been singled out because of my race.

Yeah, this has definitely happened to me sometimes. It's not always the case, but it has definitely happened on a few occasions, especially when I was young. But I do tend to notice that if your car is well kept, and fairly conservative looking, you have way less problems with being followed by the cops.

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20. I can easily buy posters, postcards, picture books, greeting cards, dolls, toys, and children's magazines featuring people of my race.

Ain't that the truth! I can't recall ever having a Mexican action figure! I had a few black ones, though.

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21. I can go home from most meetings or organizations I belong to feeling somewhat tied in rather than isolated, out of place, outnumbered, unheard, held at a distance, or feared.

I think there could be some truth to that.

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22. I can take a job with an affirmative action employer without having coworkers on the job suspect that I got it because of race.

I don't know. I've seen people of non-white color complain that someone got a job just because they were white. This is definitely a touchy subject that must be approached with caution before jumping to hasty conclusions.

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23. I can choose public accommodations without fearing that people of my race cannot get in or will be mistreated in the places I have chosen.

Yeah, that's true. But at the same time, this has been a problem when our Hispanic friends or family members look pretty rough.

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24. I can be sure that if I need legal or medical help my race will not work against me.

I don't know. I sometimes hear that illegal immigrants get better health care than some of our own citizens.

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25. If my day, week, or year is going badly, I need not ask of each negative episode or situation whether it has racial overtones.

From the perspective of an outsider, I've seen situations where there is truth to those suspicions, and other times when it might be imagined.

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26. I can chose blemish cover or bandages in "flesh" color that more or less matches my skin.

If it does what it's supposed to do, then it's good enough for me.

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Originally Posted by WEB

I cannot speak too much as to why it is good to be a male. I think women got it pretty good.

I can think of plenty of reasons why it's good to be male.

But in all seriousness, I do think that very attractive females have it much easier in terms of getting jobs. I have a friend who knows that if she wears a short skirt to the interview, she will land a good job that she's not qualified for, along with the promise of training; and in her case it's been true.

emptypepsi · 07-09-2007, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by presluc

I meant no disrespect.
Ny point was if this "male privilege" is in order does this mean the illeagal male immigrants get to go through the fence first?

Oh, don't sweat it! I forgot my smiley!
I actually laughed at it. "hablas español" is the spelling, though.

Rick · 07-09-2007, 04:19 PM

This is all blather - let's look at black privilege:

1. During the last 30 years, I've collected trillions of dollars from Lyndon Johnson's Great Society programs.

2. In the movies, TV, and other media, as a black male I'm relentlessly portrayed as hip, smart, studly, brave, cool, etc.

3. If I apply to college, I will be granted admission above vastly more qualified whites and asians.

4. If I apply to graduate or professional school, I will be granted admission above vastly more qualified whites and asians.

5. Public white figures who make borderline racist statements will be severely punished, but my such statements will be ignored.

6. Congressional districts will be gerrymandered to make sure I get a black congressman.

7. I will benefit from blatant discrimination in my favor in the armed forces.

8. If I work for a corporation, I will benefit from discrimination in my favor in hiring, pay, promotion, and layoff order.

9. I will benefit from government mandated discrimination in my favor in bank loans.

10. Speech codes are established at universities to "protect" me from speech that is not similarly used for other groups.

11. I will be discriminated in favor of for scholarships, fellowships, and internships.

12. I will be discriminated in favor of for government jobs.

13. School textbooks will be edited to remove references to dead white men, like the Founding Fathers, in favor of obscure poets of my race.

14. In many cities I will be discriminated in favor of for police and fireman jobs.

15. I will be discriminated in favor of for government contracts.

Basically, I have a free pass through life.