dahermit

If a person were to be marooned on an uninhabited Island (with natural resources to sustain life)of course one person would have no need for government. Let us say that another person washes ashore. Would two people have the need or desire to make rules or form a government? Then a third person washes ashore.

At what point would there be a move to form a government and why? What would be the impetus? What would be the reasons? How many people would there have to be before someone thought it necessary? What type of government would emerge?

Thoughtful, serious answers please.

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary

You should read the book Robinson Crusoe. Haven't finished it, but I know that with only two people on the island, slavery already starts.

I guess you would have to define the word government. Does it just mean leader? Does it mean a full-time paid bureaucrat? Does it mean communal ownership and taxes?

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top gun

My guess would be forming some type of governing rules would come up as soon as there was a disagreement that emerged that affected the survivors as a whole. Until then you'd probably have the strongest or smartest acting as an uncontested group leader. After the disagreement you'd either agree to some type of total group governance... break up into individual groups that did agree and separate from the others... or fight for control of the whole group in chaos.

dahermit

Read the book many years ago, have watched a television special about the true incident that inspired the book.

I do not remember that Crusoe enslaved Friday...I remember more of a companion.

I want posters to make the definitions.

dahermit

I like it...I like it. This is the kind of stuff I am looking for.

Brother Oz

A government is a mechanism for solving disputes. It may or may not do this fairly. So, when there are two people on the island, they will probably agree whether or not to do things, using no mechanism. They may however, have a system where one of the two makes all the decisions, which is a government. When there are three, however, they will have to decide whether they're going to vote on things, or have unanimous consent, or have a leader who makes the decisions (this is assuming they decide to work together). The first and third systems are a government, the second one is but only if it is formal.

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FRYandBENDER

I would say that once you got to have maybe 15 or 20 people on the island you might want to set up some set of rules. Once you get up to about 30 or more people you might want to set up a group of leaders. As far as them being paid, well I don't really see that happening, but I'm sure human nature will find some way for the leaders to find benefits for their position.

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Slartibartfas

As soon as you have more than one person you have to have some rules that make it possible for both to live with or at least beneath each other. Those rules dont have to be written law, they can also be a matter of a constant fight.

The smallest entity in which rules are made regularely are families. Many cultures know a head of the family who also has the power to make decissions in case of conflicts.

The next step would be a tribe, where a few families live together. A tribe has also been the predominating form of community for a long time. A family alone can not exist independantly (->inzest), but a tribe has already a sufficient grade of independance.

With the civilisation progressing, larger social constructs arose. You will know them, feudal systems first, monarchies etc later on. And in the last centuries, finally the rise of the nations.



Back to your question. From where on does one need a "government". I think its the wrong question. As its a fluent process, there are no borders, because are family heads a governor, or tribe leaders? Partially yes.
The point is, the further you go up, the more diversified the whole structure becomes, in smaller entities you have a one man show, in nations you have the inhabitants of a whole town that are needed to run the nation.

Of course there is also a form of alternative organisation. It would be taking collective decissions, instead of having a single leader, or in a bad case, to simply have anarchy, which will lead most likely however either to a downfall or to the rise of a new order.

The ancient greeks had also an interesting form, the "Polis". A city state, in many cases even democratic city states.


So your question should be: "What do you consider to be a government?"

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dahermit

I disagree. I think that on a basic level government (laws) are an attempt at controlling someone else. A person never proposes a rule or a law to control themselves...only someone else.
If they do not agree, depending on the size of the island someone can leave, or at least wait till the other is asleep and bash his head in with a rock.
With three politics begin. Alliances will emerge, perhaps persuasion used. With three I do not think a leader would be viewed as necessary. Friction will definitely start at this point (I think). More than three:
Notably, the politics of human dynamics are never accepted by all...I think that is why mankind has spread over the earth like a drop of oil on pond; we are always moving away from politics, governments, that we do not wish to deal with. On this island, if the groups cannot put enough space between themselves so that they do not have to contend with imposed politics, or if they have to compete for resources, there will be tribal conflict.
Feel free to jump in here.