GabrielRubeus

I believe torture in the United States should be used to extract information because;
1. We could extract important information such as terrorist attacks if any.
2. We could get information on other terrorists so we can arrest them before they do any harm.
3. We could get information a lot faster than what the hippies and the UN we could do by using plain old speaking skills.

Honestly, the United Nations complains about America's decreasing Human Rights, but why doesn't the UN complain about Russia, North Korea, Chinas, Iran, and many more human rights breach? America is not the only country in the world I am sorry to say that uses torture. Also, to ADD to this America doesn't kill the people, we embarras them or wash-board them, where NK,Russia, China, and others just KILL them or use or tools of torture that are WAY more painful than wash-boarding.

I can go on about this all day, but I'd rather hear what you have to say about this.

TokenLiberal

'Fraid not. Useful information is almost never received from torture; fact of the matter is, people will say anything to make the torture stop, and that anything is usually what they think the torturer wants to hear. Thus, most of the info we get is useless anyways.

Obviously, those countries are guilty of crimes far worse than those of the United States. Nonetheless, I don't want to see our nation, which is supposed to be above them and better, founded upon laws and human rights, reduced to such terrible atrocities. If we let ourselves torture, we lose that which makes this nation worth fighting for.

Shiva_TD

Cruel and unusual punishment and coercion in obtaining information is strictly prohibited by the US Constitution and by the Geneva Conventions to which the United States is a treaty member.

The argument that "other countries" violate human rights is non sequitor. It is akin to saying people rob banks therefore robbing banks is acceptable.

Zero

It also should be said we tried and convicted many japanese soldiers for "water boarding" our soldiers in ww2, using the geneve convention as base

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iTaliAN_ICe

Not true. Do you really think people are able to make up intricate lies while they're being subjected to the pain of torture? Furthermore, we have received useful information from waterboarding. After allegedly being waterboarded in Guantanamo, Khalid Sheikh Muhammad admitted his involvement in the 9/11 attacks as well as 30 other terrorist plots.

I understand your argument, but at times like these, we sometimes have to make compromises to sufficiently protect ourselves from terrorism. If possible, I'd torture every terrorist in the world before I allowed even one innocent person to die because of them.

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"As the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen… it is declared… The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan nation."

-Treaty of Tripoli, 1794.

The Lying Dutchman

who said these countries where never condemned by the un?

Slartibartfas

I have no access to scientific data on this, but yes information "extracted" by torture or similar actions is highly unreliable.

Apart from this its against your constitution as some other Americans here have pointed above, and its also against binding international law that the US has signed.

Not to forget that it is immoral and the US would be nothing short of a rouge state when starting to use torture.

There are always "times like these" for torture supporters. You always find a reason to undermine human rights democracy etc. In the Roman empire they exagerated already a pirate threat in order to get rid of the Republic, and Hitler invented a Polnish invasion to attack Poland. The conservatives in the first Austrian Republic abolished the Parliament in order to "protect Austria" from the Germans. Harsh examples I know, but choose whatever example you want, you can always construct a need for breaking human rights if you are eager enough to find one.

Those who abandon human rights in favor of security deserve (and probably will get) neither.

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"Every country gets the cuisine it deserves"

Common insult examples and how to avoid them

TokenLiberal

Bingo. Slarti nailed it, and my response is his, ice. The above quote is a paraphrase of perhaps the wisest of our Founding Fathers, Ben Franklin. They wouldn't have supported torture on these grounds, and I don't either.

GabrielRubeus

But we need to get the information... We cannot just sit and speak to them like their human beings, you have to make them feel less superior, make them feel like they can be destroyed at anytime if wanted to. Torture can do that, as well as a "mock execution."

iTaliAN_ICe

If you have no evidence to back your statement up, how do you expect me to believe it?

Constitutional rights don't extend to prisoners, much less foreign prisoners. Shall we give them the right to bear arms as well?

In this case, I don't care. The safety and well being of the American people takes precedence over adherence to any international law, signed or not.

Morality is largely subjective. Personally, I don't think that waterboarding terrorists is immoral if it has the potential to save innocent lives. Inversely, I'd say that putting innocent lives at potential risk by refusing to use waterboarding and similar interrogation techniques is immoral.

What does this have to do with undermining democracy?

The key difference in this case is that while the threats in your examples were fabricated, the threats I speak of are quite real. Do you remember 9/11? I realize that 9/11 may not have been as big a deal over in Europe as it was over here, but I'm sure that the families of the 3,000 people that died that day would gladly have supported the use of torture if they knew it would save the lives of their loved ones.

Human rights don't extend to terrorists... terrorists aren't human.

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"As the government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen… it is declared… The United States is not a Christian nation any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan nation."

-Treaty of Tripoli, 1794.