Abortion: would making it illegal actually solve the problem - Page 16 - Political Forum

Miltiades · 05-07-2008, 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gnuf Said

Actually, I think most illegal abortions would be done in a doctor's office, just as they were in the past. The image of the back alley abortionist with a coathanger is nothing more than fearmongering by pro-choicers.

So doctors would illegaly abort babies? With the governments paws all over our health? Possibly, but It could be a little hard to keep it under wraps...

Im no fearmonger, I'm just stating what I believe will happen. If you are terrorized by that I would advise seeking council with someone. And a coathanger isnt my choice of a tool, YOU are the one suggesting that my friend. Giving labels is a dangerous buisness, espicially if you know not the thing you are titling. My advice for the future is to seek truth and not bend words for uses. No offence intended if it sounds harsh or insulting.

LiveUninhibited · 05-07-2008, 10:18 PM

The coathanger idea is stupid mostly because there are much easier ways to do it. I'm guessing if abortion were made illegal, the now esoteric information on taking category X drugs or their equivalent to induce miscarriages would become common knowledge. This would be riskier to the mother than current abortion practices, but much safer than the coathanger idea and much cheaper than current practice.

Note that abortion was illegal for only about a century. The AMA crusaded against it from an ostensibly moral position, but really wanted to put non-allopathic quacks out of business, as abortion was a good source of income. Historically the standard for allowing abortion had been quickening, i.e. when the fetus begins to move about in the womb.

The real concern is in preserving human life. I agree that rape per se does not justify murder, but you would first have to prove that abortion is murder. I think we should return to something like the quickening standard (early abortion okay, late abortion not), as it is indicative of sufficient brain development to warrant protection.

Gnuf Said · 05-08-2008, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miltiades

So doctors would illegaly abort babies? With the governments paws all over our health? Possibly, but It could be a little hard to keep it under wraps...

Im no fearmonger, I'm just stating what I believe will happen. If you are terrorized by that I would advise seeking council with someone. And a coathanger isnt my choice of a tool, YOU are the one suggesting that my friend. Giving labels is a dangerous buisness, espicially if you know not the thing you are titling. My advice for the future is to seek truth and not bend words for uses. No offence intended if it sounds harsh or insulting.

Those tactics are the very ones being expounded by the pro-choice lobby. The fake "5,000 to 10,000 deaths a year" statistic can still be found on pro-choice web sites today.

And yes, doctors would illegally abort babies, just as they did prior to Roe v. Wade.

Gnuf Said · 05-08-2008, 12:05 PM

Here is a pro-choice outfit that calls itself "The Coathanger Project":The Coat Hanger Project Blog: Anti-Abortion Movement Borrows Tactics from the KKK

Quote:

This is the official, unapologetically pro-choice blog of "The Coat Hanger Project," a documentary film about abortion and the current state of the pro-choice movement to be released in 2009. This blog contains factual information and resources about abortion, as well as news and current events. For more information, visit The Coat Hanger Project Home Page.

Some more fearmongering:
The Coat Hanger Campaign

Quote:

We would like to begin by organizing a campaign, with the goal of having at least 400 letters sent to our provincial Health Minister, Brad Green, who approved the cancellation of abortion services at the Fredericton Dr. Everett Chalmers Hospital. We are suggesting that each letter contain a coat hanger to remind our public health representative of one of the most disturbing dangers of restricting a woman’s right to choose: self-induced abortion.

Whoopi Goldberg gets in on the action:

Quote:

Speakers ranged from actresses Whoopi Goldberg, Ashley Judd and Kathleen Turner to philanthropist Ted Turner, feminist icon Gloria Steinem and former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright.

Goldberg raised a wire coat hanger -- a symbol of illegal abortions in the days before the Supreme Court's 1973 Roe vs. Wade ruling recognizing abortion rights -- and told the crowd, "We are one vote away from going back to this!"

Massive Protest Decries Bush Abortion Policies

Gnuf Said · 05-08-2008, 12:23 PM

Here is a 1959 article on illegal abortions which speaks to the issue of most illegal abortions being done by doctors: Modern Mechanix: ILLEGAL ABORTION … disease of society

It also speaks to the matter of the number of illegal abortions each year, which backs up my earlier statement that I don't believe the number of abortions would drop if Roe v Wade was overturned.

Quote:

The three-day conference tackled all aspects of the abortion problem —both illegal as well as legal. A high-spot of the sessions was a candid report from a Baltimore physician who had performed 5,210 illegal abortions. In spite of the stigma attached to the term abortionist, this doctor, G. Lotrell Ti-manus, was a highly-qualified and professionally-minded physician.

Dr. Timanus told how, in a period of thirty years, he had built up a roster of 353 physicians who sent patients to him for abortion. Seven of his patients were physicians themselves, while 58 were doctors’ wives and 270 were graduate nurses.

At one point in his career, Dr. Timanus reported, he had retired, but resumed practice after “at least twenty doctors told me how serious it was that I do some work.”

Not long after, he was prosecuted, fined $5000 and forcefully retired after a six-month jail sentence.

Dr. Timanus figures on the number of abortions he had performed seem exceedingly high; but they shrink in comparison with the 40,000 abortions which Dr. Timanus estimated had been done over a period of fifty years by one physician he personally knew.

At the height of his activity this second doctor was averaging 25 illegal abortions a week, or about 1,300 a year. This, incidentally, is exactly twice the figure of all the legal, or therapeutic, abortions performed in all of New York City during the same period of time!

Since the vast majority of abortions in the United States are illegal, it is impossible to estimate the number exactly. Commonly given figures range from 200,000 to 1,200,000 a year, with many authorities tending to accept the larger figure.

One doctor, Sophia J. Kleegman, told the conference about a “new racket.”

“A woman seeking an abortion,” she said, “calls up a doctor. Another doctor, usually with a nurse, comes to her home by arranged appointment. She does not know this doctor, has never seen him before, and probably will never see him again. She has the abortion performed in her own home, with a fee in proportion to such a service.

KADSta12 · 05-12-2008, 12:03 PM

The same thing would happen that happens everytime something is made illegal, people don't stop doing it. The hospital rooms where it was done turn into allies and it becomes much more dangerous.

Achilles · 06-05-2008, 04:18 PM

robbery is illegal yet people do it any way does that mean we shouldnt prohibit it. People know of the dangers it will discourage people. but a baby isn't a burden that you can just get removed it's a living thing that doesn't do anything wrong. People look at it and say making a law will not make much of a difference people will do it illegaly. But when somewhere some young girl decides to obey the law and be safe you can look into the happinesss of that living breathing baby's eyes and say it made a difference to that one.

FreeFallin · 06-05-2008, 05:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Achilles

robbery is illegal yet people do it any way does that mean we shouldnt prohibit it. People know of the dangers it will discourage people. but a baby isn't a burden that you can just get removed it's a living thing that doesn't do anything wrong. People look at it and say making a law will not make much of a difference people will do it illegaly. But when somewhere some young girl decides to obey the law and be safe you can look into the happinesss of that living breathing baby's eyes and say it made a difference to that one.

the difference is, with drugs and murder. its dangerous and the same either way, but with abortion is cleaner and safer legal for american's already alive.

Achilles · 06-05-2008, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreeFallin

the difference is, with drugs and murder. its dangerous and the same either way, but with abortion is cleaner and safer legal for american's already alive.

Abortion is murder. And the baby just because it needs its mother to survive doesnt mean it is not alive. If you complain about how the current leaders are making the wrong decision why kill a baby that has a potential to do something great. Aristotle Malcom X Nelson Mandelah all good people who were orphans but becase adopted and not killed made a big difference in the world.

FreeFallin · 06-05-2008, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Achilles

Abortion is murder. And the baby just because it needs its mother to survive doesnt mean it is not alive. If you complain about how the current leaders are making the wrong decision why kill a baby that has a potential to do something great. Aristotle Malcom X Nelson Mandelah all good people who were orphans but becase adopted and not killed made a big difference in the world.

ok first u think abortion is murder others dont so i really dont take ur arguement seriously. But i respect you for using someone like malcom X instead of jesus. If those people truely had faith in god they would know he wouldnt allow the mothers of important people have abortions.

and adoption has its own mess with parents who give up there children but still want parental rights. and even worse then that people who are against abortion and prefer adoption won't even allow same sex couples adopt, so the child rots and has a miserable life, while pro life people pat them selves on the back