I never said that the making abortions legal was going to solve anything, just that making them illegal isn't going to stop them happening. If people WANT an abortion, they should be allowed to have one, even you personally don't think it's moral, it's not your body, and it's not your life. Say your partner got raped and wanted an abortion, would you not support her through that? I realise the rape scenario is rare and extreme, but I don't think you have the right to control whether other people have abortions or not.

Fair enough you might not agree, but why should it be upto you to decide what they can do? They're the ones make the choice to have it after all, it doesn't directly affect you. Surely it's best that they are safe?

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- Freedom of speech is man's greatest luxury -

What's "best" is the result in which no human beings are killed for selfish reasons... That's the "best" possible result and it's the result that science and nature both stand by. You say it's "not your body and it's not your life," well the life that's growing within pregnant women isn't their body and it isn't their life either. It's inside their body, but in the massive majority of abortion cases, that's only because they chose for that to happen anyway (because sex is for what? Reproduction). So they make a choice and then kill the life--the human being--that results? How rational.

You're right, I can't control the foolish, murderous choices others make. Society can't either. What society can do is punish them for it. And that's what society did do and that's what society should do (preserve the life of the human beings being killed for selfish, irresponsible, and foolish reasons)--and that's what this debate is about

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"Ask not what your country can do for you; ask what you can do for your country."
-John F. Kennedy

"Education begins the gentleman, but reading, good company and reflection must finish him."
-John Locke

"What worries you, masters you."
-John Locke

Amen to that! If you are willing to do the deed(sex), then you need to be willing to accept the responsibility involved with it(procreation).

Sorry, I disagree. You've made it clear you're totally against abortion but it's something that will happen regardless of what laws you make against it. I agree that abortion is wrong, but I don't agree that society has the right to stop people from having one if that is what they want.

I don't see how a society has the right to condemn people for doing that, it's harldy far. It's a very conservative standing and it's hardly very open-minded. In your world, abortion is illegal, so woman could die from their pregnancies WHEN we have the opportunity to stop that happening and potentially save a life, rather than losing two as a result of some stupid law.

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- Freedom of speech is man's greatest luxury -

But that is not for the mother or any other living being to determine. What level of suffering is considered good and at what point does it become bad and worthy of killing? This is sounding more like eugenics more then anything else.


More nuianced excuses. Where is education not available in this country?



[QUOTE}They are not "idiots". They are desperate. But women don't go around getting pregnant so they can jump for joy while they get physically maimed in a quack's home.[/quote]

No they dont, but they do engage in an act that can lead to pregnancy. If someone is not ready to deal with the consequences of their actions, then they dont need to do the action to start with b/c obviously they know they arent ready from the start, so why do something you know could put you in a bind?

Where? Not in the USA. Hell we spend how much on education, which includes sex ed? Another scapegoat: throw more money at the problem, that will solve it.


BS! Anybody can walk into a health unit and get free condoms, women included. Women can also drop off their child at a health unit if they dont want them under current laws and the child will be cared for.

Ok so we have moved to 3rd world countries now? Which are by far the extreme circumstances.

Yes it is black and white actually. If you run around having sex you better be ADULT enough to accept the consequences of your actions. It is that simple.



Not it doesnt. In the USA there are no reasons to have an abortion. None. Zip. Zero. With C-Section on demand, adoption services, health unit laws, etc, there should not be 1.2 million abortions a year. Abortion is state sponsored murder in my opinion.

Is it any less dehumanizing calling a baby a "glob of cells"? If all we are is a glob of cells, then murder at all stages of life should be legalized b/c whether a baby, a toddler, a teenager, or an adult we are all just a glob of cells.

I still find it weird that a man who stabs a pregnant woman can be charged for double murder, while a woman who willingly kills her own child is protected by the law. That makes no sense to me.

Wow. You seem to be very good at making generalisations. Yes, there are reasons to have an abortion:

1) Some women are raped and should NOT be forced to go through a 9 month pregnancy as a result, even if adoption is an option afterwards. It's just a constant reminder of the attack. How is that fair?

2) How about if continuing the pregnancy would result in the woman's death? Or the unborn child is too ill to survive once it's born? Why shouldn't having an abortion in either of those situations be made a possibility?

Abortion is NOT a black and white case. I agree that it is used too leniently as a form of contraception, but that doesn't mean it should be banned outright. That's not really a good argument, it's pretty strict and doesn't go so far as to help anyone.

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- Freedom of speech is man's greatest luxury -

See here is the problem I see. A woman COULD die 1,000 different deaths not related to her pregnancy. In fact the number of mothers who die due strictly to pregnancy is so small it barely registers up against the total number of abortions done. I wanna say the CDC from 1991 to 1999 has the facts at around 6,000 deaths due to pregnancy and 4,000 of those were deaths within a year after having the baby, so you cant really say it was due to the pregnancy itself b/c she didnt die b/c she was pregnant. So that leaves 2,000 to be the actual number. Now compare that to the 1.2 million abortions done per year and you can see the distconnect inside the whiole arguement.

1.2 million(per year) vs. 2,000(over a nine year period). That has got to raise an eyebrow or two.

And since when was adhering to a conservative ideal a bad thing? Are you saying b/c pro-lifers are cpnservative it is automatically closed minded and bad?

No, it isn't. You keep saying that but you don't seem to listen to anyone else's viewpoint. Rape happens. Pregnancies which result in the death of the mother happen. These situations aren't going to go away, and I don't think you can just go around and generalise like that. Perhaps abortion is immoral, I agree with you that it is, but that's just your view, it's not societies view, and they have a responsibility to PROTECT their citizens, which involves safe and legal abortions in the majority of countries. Making it illegal won't just make the problem disappear.

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- Freedom of speech is man's greatest luxury -

Firstly, I don't agree with abortion, I hope I've made that clear. And I do realise that in the majority of cases, abortion is used as a form of contraception, but how do you have the right to go and judge people? #

Conservatism IS close minded. It's not the most open-minded of ideals and although there is absolutely nothing wrong with being pro-life, that is YOUR decision, not what everyone else automatically decides. We live in a LIBERAL democracy, which thankfully allows people a lot more freedom than you seem to think they should have.

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- Freedom of speech is man's greatest luxury -

How many women who are said to be "raped" get pregnant? Do you have the numbers on it? This is such a small fraction of pregnancies it is bad to base abortion laws on it.

Who can determine who is gonna die? Doctors cant. Oh they can give you statistics all day, but those stats are just averages. How many people have been told they had cancer and had 6 months to live and are still alive 12 years later?

Why not allow both to live? What is this obsession with killing people b/c they may or may not live up to someone elses standards? No buddy can determine with 100% clarity who is gonna live or die. Nobody.

Yes it is. People in their divine wisdom which to complicate matters to show how educated or intelligent they are. When all you really have to do is just look at cause and effect.

So we should keep allowing some killing of human beings to a point. How about a qouta per year then? What is not a good arguement? Outlawing abortions? Sure it is. Everything from the sanctity of life to the science backs up the pro-life side. On the other side we are touched with feelings, caring, and emotion, nothing less.

Nothing good comes from an abortion, not to the mother and not to the society who allows it.