Brave New World - Political Forum

emptypepsi · 07-27-2007, 09:33 PM

I just finished the book 1984, and rather than writing a review over it, I decided to write a suggestion of a book that I feel is just as urgent of a message to the minds of free thinkers - Brave New World by Alduos Huxley.

In 1984, we are presented with a world controlled by a terrifying, oppressive government, who scrutinizes every move you make. In an instant, you can be snatched away to be punished for the slightest thing they deem 'odd' or 'dangerous' to their new status quo. BNW is not unlike 1984 in that we are privy to watching a government that also shuns and works to deprive society of the individual, but in a very different manner. Good sci-fi is supposed to make you think; this book has the capacity not just to do that but to change your whole perspective on the human race and where it is headed.

In this society everyone alive is a product of genetic engineering, and “designed” so as to fit and be happy about their position in life – whether scientist or cleaner.

There are no families. Monogamy is heavily conditioned out. Close personal ties are considered unnatural, as is philosophizing, appreciation of beauty, artistic endeavor, and most other forms of creative thought that may interfere with the conditioning. Hormones are rebalanced, and life is one long round of hedonism when one is not working. If this is not enough to persuade you that your life is perfect as it is, there is soma, the most perfect designer drug ever invented.

Soma is the final silencer for the human nature. All persons are conditioned to take soma whenever they show any sign of discontent. The drug is a euphoric mild hallucinogen, and when taken in larger doses produce a hallucinogenic coma that is deeply satisfying and produces no hangover.

But then, along comes Bernard Marx.

I'll leave the rest up to you for reading.

Pnin · 11-07-2007, 05:56 AM

I read both BNW and 1984.

Actually I never understood why people thought that BNW is a dystopia, because even though I would certainly not choose to live in such a society, I can imagine that being born into it, knowing and therefore also missing nothing else, would be a very positive thing. There is a clear hierarchy dictated by genetics, everybody knows his place in life and it's after all a wonderful life without any worries and unwanted thoughts.

Have you also read "We" by Jevgeni Samyatin (probably spelled wrong)? This work, the earliest of these three, is in my opinion the best one and has impressed me the most.

Diligent_d · 11-07-2007, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pnin

I read both BNW and 1984.

Actually I never understood why people thought that BNW is a dystopia, because even though I would certainly not choose to live in such a society, I can imagine that being born into it, knowing and therefore also missing nothing else, would be a very positive thing. There is a clear hierarchy dictated by genetics, everybody knows his place in life and it's after all a wonderful life without any worries and unwanted thoughts.

Have you also read "We" by Jevgeni Samyatin (probably spelled wrong)? This work, the earliest of these three, is in my opinion the best one and has impressed me the most.

That one just came in the mail last week from Amazon. I cannot wait to start reading it.

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · 11-08-2007, 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pnin

I read both BNW and 1984.

Actually I never understood why people thought that BNW is a dystopia, because even though I would certainly not choose to live in such a society, I can imagine that being born into it, knowing and therefore also missing nothing else, would be a very positive thing. There is a clear hierarchy dictated by genetics, everybody knows his place in life and it's after all a wonderful life without any worries and unwanted thoughts.

Have you also read "We" by Jevgeni Samyatin (probably spelled wrong)? This work, the earliest of these three, is in my opinion the best one and has impressed me the most.

Well yeah, I guess you don't think it's so bad if you are born into that society. However, given that the people in that society are conditioned to be happy even though some 75% of the population is genetically engineered to have sub-human intelligence, I don't think that being non-cognizant of being sub-human negates the problem of being genetically engineered to be a sub-human.

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · 11-08-2007, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rodog

That's why it's a dystopia. Even if it's citizens would love to live in such a society since you are on the outside looking in it is a dystopia from your perspective especially given all that you possess that is forbidden in their society. Of course it isn't a dystopia from the perspective of those living within though.

Oh yeah, even the Gamma and Epsilon troll like creatures were content with the society (given the heavy amount of conditioning and drugs they were given).

Viv · 11-08-2007, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emptypepsi

I just finished the book 1984, and rather than writing a review over it, I decided to write a suggestion of a book that I feel is just as urgent of a message to the minds of free thinkers - Brave New World by Alduos Huxley.

In 1984, we are presented with a world controlled by a terrifying, oppressive government, who scrutinizes every move you make. In an instant, you can be snatched away to be punished for the slightest thing they deem 'odd' or 'dangerous' to their new status quo. BNW is not unlike 1984 in that we are privy to watching a government that also shuns and works to deprive society of the individual, but in a very different manner. Good sci-fi is supposed to make you think; this book has the capacity not just to do that but to change your whole perspective on the human race and where it is headed.

In this society everyone alive is a product of genetic engineering, and “designed” so as to fit and be happy about their position in life – whether scientist or cleaner.

There are no families. Monogamy is heavily conditioned out. Close personal ties are considered unnatural, as is philosophizing, appreciation of beauty, artistic endeavor, and most other forms of creative thought that may interfere with the conditioning. Hormones are rebalanced, and life is one long round of hedonism when one is not working. If this is not enough to persuade you that your life is perfect as it is, there is soma, the most perfect designer drug ever invented.

Soma is the final silencer for the human nature. All persons are conditioned to take soma whenever they show any sign of discontent. The drug is a euphoric mild hallucinogen, and when taken in larger doses produce a hallucinogenic coma that is deeply satisfying and produces no hangover.

But then, along comes Bernard Marx.

I'll leave the rest up to you for reading.

Sounds like the aim of most governments. In the UK society is becoming like that. The proles are taking more drugs than ever, the rest of us are working more hours and economic solvency is anaesthitizing us, no one needs the family network because people have no needs, they don't require support so the requirement for the family network has reduced. People are materially self-sufficient. Women don't need men, because they have better jobs...and we all drink wine at the weekend (not soma).
Economic success has us convinced we are where we ought to be in life, so we're...quiet. Divorce is commonplace, no one cares about that nowadays, you can do what you want. People don't know their children as well as they used to because both parents work and they're knackered when they manage to get home.

Anyway, I've read 1984 and have read Huxley, but not sure about that particular book. So thank you, Pepsi, your words put me in the mood so I've just ordered "Brave New World" and while I was about it ordered:
"The Earth" by Emile Zola (which I've read before but for me it's his best work and it's superbly gripping)
"Ladies Delight" by Zola, I haven't read it but it's supposed to be about the beginnings of a capitalist economy, I'll post a review.
And finally, I threw in "To Kill a Mockingbird" because my son is that age where it's time he read it and began to get his head around the concept of racism and equality.

Slartibartfas · 11-08-2007, 05:07 PM

Actually I never considered Brave New World showing such a horror future. Its a rather naive view I guess compared to the cynical world of Orwell, the world is ruled by a leadership that really just follows one maxim: Maximization of luck among all citizens. (Of course Huxley very well draws the downsides in the various details though and shows how it isn't as nice as it might appear on the first look.)

An updated version of the book would not even need those "subhumans" anymore as their work could be done by robots.

Having that said, its still a terrible idea for us to imagine such a "perfect" world, as we certainly don't like to have a perfect world. Still I would prefer to live in Huxleys world in every situation over the one of Orwell's one.

Just compare how the Huxley world handles rebellious people and how Orwells world does. That might in fact be the essential difference.

Kazikli Bey · 11-08-2007, 05:30 PM

I don't know, i could really see myself in the role of Emmanuel Goldstein. Orwell's world does it for me.

Slartibartfas · 11-08-2007, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kazikli Bey

I don't know, i could really see myself in the role of Emmanuel Goldstein. Orwell's world does it for me.

Well, theres is just the little problem that this Goldstein probably does exist as much as the person of the big brother: not anymore.

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary · 11-08-2007, 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Slartibartfas

Actually I never considered Brave New World showing such a horror future. Its a rather naive view I guess compared to the cynical world of Orwell, the world is ruled by a leadership that really just follows one maxim: Maximization of luck among all citizens. (Of course Huxley very well draws the downsides in the various details though and shows how it isn't as nice as it might appear on the first look.)

An updated version of the book would not even need those "subhumans" anymore as their work could be done by robots.

Having that said, its still a terrible idea for us to imagine such a "perfect" world, as we certainly don't like to have a perfect world. Still I would prefer to live in Huxleys world in every situation over the one of Orwell's one.

Just compare how the Huxley world handles rebellious people and how Orwells world does. That might in fact be the essential difference.

Even if you did replace the dwarf monsters with robots, the Alpha's still were forbidden to read anything but state propaganda, and any achievements in science were thrown in the trash. The people were also indoctrinated from cradle to grave. It was a thorough disutopia.