Independent147

I loved these books/ love them (lol) and would reccomend them strongly. They have amazing political struggles built into the plot along with war, some (a lot of) crude language, and strong philosophy. Actually, in the first book, Ender's Game, it's all violence and crude language. However, the next three books (Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, and Children of the Mind) settle down into political and philosophical discussions. The series settles into a drama. The fifth book starts the shadow books- books of Bean. Bean is like another Ender to everyone, and therefore the book is called 'Ender's Shadow'. It is another crude and violent book. In 'Shadow of the Hegemon', the series settles down once again to become much more politically-centered. I have not read the last two books, but plan to in the near future.

~~~Independent147~~~

__________________
"Love has its sonnets galore. War has its epics in heroic verse. Tragedy its sombre story in measured lines. Baseball has Casey at the Bat." - Albert Spalding

You can get a lot more done with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone. -Al Capone

"There are three things that should never be talked about; politics, religion, and... the Great Pumkin."
-Linus
Pirates ftw! http://www.politicsforumpoliticalwor...uestion-2.html

LlanfairLuv

Yeah, they're great. Sometimes I read really dumb posts on these types of forums and wonder how many are just stupid and how many think they can be the next Demosthenes.

colourislast

Your forgetting "Shadow Children" between "Ender's Shadow" and "Shadow of the Hegemon" Ender's Game and Ender's Shadow are currently being combined for a movie to come out this summer I believe. By the way, if you think these books are crude and violent, what are your thoughts on a Vince Flynn book? These books are quite tame considering the subject matter.

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I am more concerned with the intellectual environment

'Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not.'

~ Thomas Jefferson

64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday.

Independent147

I have never heard of (please give proof) Shadow Children; either it is not considered a ender book, or was not written at the same time as the rest of the books.
If you want to play it like that, then you could also say that First Meetings is also an Ender book, which is not a summary but short stories briefing on untold points in the regular Ender stories; another is A War of Gifts.
I have read First Meetings, and do not consider it a part of the ender series or even a 'wonderful' book. Apparently, Card does.
Never read A War of Gifts.

I have never read any of Vince Flynn's books, but perhaps I may now that you have pointed me toward them.

Card came out with a new book, Empire. I hate how it covers the storyline (like ender books do, apparently he can't figure how to write a new style) but I think the plot is great.

This is a boxed set on amazon.com:
"Ender's Game; Speaker for the Dead; Xenocide; Children of the Mind; Ender's Shadow; Shadow of the Hegemon; Shadow Puppets; Shadow of the Giant; First Meetings (Ender Wiggin, 1-9)"

__________________
"Love has its sonnets galore. War has its epics in heroic verse. Tragedy its sombre story in measured lines. Baseball has Casey at the Bat." - Albert Spalding

You can get a lot more done with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone. -Al Capone

"There are three things that should never be talked about; politics, religion, and... the Great Pumkin."
-Linus
Pirates ftw! http://www.politicsforumpoliticalwor...uestion-2.html

colourislast

My bad, I confused Shadow Puppets with Shadow Children. Vince Flynn is a more conservative Tom Clancy, he does not repeat ideas over and over in his books and he is more blunt with the action.

__________________
I am more concerned with the intellectual environment

'Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not.'

~ Thomas Jefferson

64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday.

HenryDavidThoreau

There are 9 books? I thought there were only 2? Well I have read the first one and the ender's shadow, a long time ago. Very good books.

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During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act.
-George Orwell

zerochill

i never heard of first meating but i have read all the rest and enjoyed them very much. i dont think that enders game/shadow where crude books. i realy dont know what you mean by that

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kikyo755

I love it.I've read Ender's gane and Ender's Shadow,so far.But i think Bean should have taken down the buggers.

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Independent147

Here's a branching off question- which do you like better, the 'Shadow' side of the series or the side that stays with Ender through Speaker for the Dead, Xenocide, and Children of the Mind?

Personally I preferred the Shadow series. The world politics being manipulated is interesting to me
The side that sticks with Ender still has wonderful book's, don't get me wrong, simply I prefer the Shadow books

Oh yeah, and I finished the series a while back

__________________
"Love has its sonnets galore. War has its epics in heroic verse. Tragedy its sombre story in measured lines. Baseball has Casey at the Bat." - Albert Spalding

You can get a lot more done with a kind word and a gun, than with a kind word alone. -Al Capone

"There are three things that should never be talked about; politics, religion, and... the Great Pumkin."
-Linus
Pirates ftw! http://www.politicsforumpoliticalwor...uestion-2.html

ObliviousNation

Excellent series, I have the whole collection..

I couldt really give you a decision on which part of the series I like best tho, because if you ask me they are both manipulation of world politics

The beginning of the series is all about how there is no war but the "IF" stays around only because of the threat that the buggers might come back..

but there wasnt one book that I didnt like in that series...