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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2007, 04:48 AM
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flipfreek flipfreek is offline
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Originally Posted by sirhc View Post
ArcticWind7, nice post

flipfreek, Howard is not a racist, i have never heard of Howard being a raciest. actually he even did a highly controversial intervention recently in a attempt to stabilize the Aboriginals deteriorating culture. As for asians, he allows many asian immigrants eg, every other person in Melbourne (australias 2nd biggest city) is a asian or pilipino.

people say Howard is a raciest because he won't apologize for "the stolen generation" which was a raciest black spot on our history that many white people have apologized to the aboriginals for it. but Howard refuses to apologize for it, although he does admits it was wrong. If Howard apologized it that would mean the Federal government would be admitting fault and could open the way for the worlds biggest class action lawsuit.
I never said Howard was a racist, I don't know if he is. However, he has been accused of discriminating against Asians albeit subtly. Such accusations usually involve Pauline Hanson who is known for her discriminatory stances on immigration. To my understanding, in the 90's, when Pauline was taking a very anti-Asian immigration stance, Howard was very reluctant to critcise her. Some say that this reluctance hinted that he shared similar sentiments.

If by "attempt to stabilize the Aboriginals deteriorating culture', you are referring to the "Northern Territory National Emergency Response", you rightly point out that it was controversial.

Anyway, I don't know much on this issue and have no desire to debate with you. I just wanted to point out another difference between Howard and Rudd.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2007, 05:22 PM
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Kazikli Bey Kazikli Bey is offline
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To my understanding, in the 90's, when Pauline was taking a very anti-Asian immigration stance, Howard was very reluctant to critcise her.
Howard was reluctant to criticise her because she supported him in almost the same way the National Party supported the coalition. It was more diplomatic then anything as it isn't wise to attack an ally.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 12-05-2007, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Kazikli Bey View Post
Howard was reluctant to criticise her because she supported him in almost the same way the National Party supported the coalition. It was more diplomatic then anything as it isn't wise to attack an ally.
Perhaps, but it was perceived as him siding with a discriminatory figure nonetheless. I also believe that Howard was criticised for funneling preferential votes to One Nation, which was perceived as him supporting Hanson. However, I'm really not familiar with how that system works so I may be completely wrong there. I mean he has called her "deranged" among other things...
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 12-06-2007, 04:56 AM
Hawk23 Hawk23 is offline
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These days, in most western countries, there isn't actually much difference between Conservative and post-left parties.
When you've been PM that long, fatigue sets in, you start running out of good ideas, and the voters want someone else.
I wish the Labor party luck, and hope they do well, but I don't really see massive differences.
Perhaps our Australian posters could tell us if there are any really significant differences?
There are no real significant differences between the parties BUT only one party had John Howard. Now that disgusting little piece of filth has been consigned to the garbage heap of history - the two parties really will be quite similar

The real difference was that Howard had too much baggage - too many lies, too many crimes over 11 years:

- Lies about WMDs in Iraq
- Lies about the 'children overboard' affair
- The Department of Foreign Affairs approving the payment bribes to Saddam Hussein immediately before the invasion of Iraq
- The Aus governments knowledge of the use of torture by our allies the USA
- The support of the USA's illegal imprisonment of David Hicks

All Howard could ever come up with was "...nobody told me". He was either a complete liar or completely incompetent. I suspect the former.

Then there was his 11 years of climate change denial. Moron.

Howard was an absolute disgrace. An embarrassment to his country. I look forward to him fronting a future war crimes tribunal for his part in the illegal invasion of Iraq and his complicity in the use of torture by the USA.

Time to see him locked behind razor wire, just like he imprisoned the children of refugees. Only difference being is that he arguably is a criminal - they weren't.
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-2007, 04:07 AM
superdude17* superdude17* is offline
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Nothing lasts forever, and no one is indispensable. Great men rise, and great men fall. a trueand great giant has fallen.

Not since Lady Margaret Thatcher was brought down by a revolt in her own party in 1990 has conservatism…and the world…suffered such a blow. Nevertheless, it is the very freedom and democracy that civilized people everywhere cherish that forces us to accept decisions, no matter how horrible they may be. The people of Australia have spoken, and after four terms as Prime Minister, John Howard and his conservative ruling coalition were defeated by his opponents in Labour.

Make no mistake about it. This short, bald, undistinguished looking man who ran Australia was a giant. On economics, Australia’s budget was balanced during his reign. Australia has no deficit. The whole nation has a surplus.

On immigration, John Howard was a hardliner. Immigrants who came were expected to assimilate, and conform to Australian values. Those who refused to do so were to leave, with the help of the Australian government.

On the defining issue of our time, the War on Terror, John Howard was a staunch ally of America. He articulated the Bush Doctrine better than President Bush did. During his tenure, he, President Bush, and Tony Blair continued with what is known as “The Angloshpere.” With help from former Prime Ministers Aznar of Spain and Berlusconi of Italy, Australia was on the front lines as being an absolute and unwavering defender of American values.

Australian political analysts, who if they were any less qualified to do anything would be American pundits, kept predicting electoral defeat for Mr. Howard. He kept confounding them. What the pundits failed to understand is that like Ronald Reagan, Mr. Howard talked right past the media that looked down on him. He spoke plainly to the people. The more he was attacked for being a regular guy, the more regular guys liked him.

John Howard won elections because he got the job done. He managed Australia deftly through the Asian financial crisis a decade ago. He went after regulations the way he went after Al Queda, vigorously. He condemned the nightclub bombings in Bali, and kept pointing out that those bombings occurred well before the war with Iraq. He did not offer excuses. He simply condemned barbarism in the strongest possible terms, whether it be 9/11, the Bali bombings, or the attacks on Israel that Mr. Howard understood were pure evil. He knew right from wrong, and he expressed it with a bullhorn.
So why did Mr. Howard lose? Because he was a victim of his own success. When their are no more perceived external threats to conquer, be they Islamofacists or inflation, people gaze inward. This is why the ROman Empire fell, and why lady Thatcher was brought down. When people are happy, they become complacent, and laziness needs to a yearning for more. Governing is not sexy. Mr. Howard was not sexy. He simply did the job in an unflashy way. For many people, peace and tranquility is equated with stagnation and boredom.

Today is a day of joy and mourning for people all over the world. The joy comes in the form of a free and fair election, where after ruling for so long, a prime minister will relinquish his seat with no bloodshed, and without lawyers contesting the results and crying about fake fraud. A peaceful transition of power will occur, and Australia will continue to go about daily life. Some say things are so peaceful that the difference in power will be negligible.

The mourning comes in the form of seeing one of the greatest world leaders in the history of government go down to defeat. John Howard was one of the very best, and his electoral loss is a loss for the world.

From one American citizen, I say thank you Mr. Howard. Thank you, and may God bless you for your fine principled leadership. The 21st century has gotten off to a brutal beginning, and very few people could have navigated through such torrentially monstrous waters. Thank you for being one of them. You will be missed.

Godspeed Mr. Howard.

Australia I guess can depend on its other allies: them being Fiji, Norfolk, Solomon, New Zealand, Papau New Guinea and other Oceanic countries. I am sure they make better allies than the terrible United States.

Best of luck, cheers
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-2007, 04:23 AM
Hawk23 Hawk23 is offline
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Originally Posted by superdude17* View Post
Australia I guess can depend on its other allies: them being Fiji, Norfolk, Solomon, New Zealand, Papau New Guinea and other Oceanic countries. I am sure they make better allies than the terrible United States.
Yes, you are absolutely right - Fiji, Solomon Is, New Zealand, Papau New Guinea and other Oceanic countries don't start illegal wars, imprison people without charge or torture prisoners.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-2007, 04:26 AM
superdude17* superdude17* is offline
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Originally Posted by Hawk23 View Post
Yes, you are absolutely right - Fiji, Solomon Is, New Zealand, Papau New Guinea and other Oceanic countries don't start illegal wars, imprison people without charge or torture prisoners.
yes, they also have vast economies that will power australia the growth it needs to ensure that everyone on the island maintains having jobs.

you are right. i would def. pick those over US. for sure.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-2007, 04:31 AM
Hawk23 Hawk23 is offline
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So, are you the same person that posted that nonsense here:
Godspeed Mr. John Howard « THE TYGRRRR EXPRESS

Or was that plagerised without acknowledgement?
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-2007, 04:32 AM
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Kazikli Bey Kazikli Bey is offline
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Originally Posted by superdude17* View Post
yes, they also have vast economies that will power australia the growth it needs to ensure that everyone on the island maintains having jobs.

you are right. i would def. pick those over US. for sure.
We still have the Free Trade agreement with the US and China is always looking to buy what we have, so, it can't be that bad for us now can it?

Oh, and welcome back, why is you country in Iraq, did you sign up?
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 12-10-2007, 04:33 AM
superdude17* superdude17* is offline
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you actually expected me to write that? i agree w/ all of it absolutely....

i added in the ending part, however
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