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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 03-13-2007, 12:19 PM
W.E.B. Du Bois's Avatar
W.E.B. Du Bois W.E.B. Du Bois is offline
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Oh alright. I apologize. I wasn't trying to be a dick or anything. I really thought you just meant Europe and Australia (aka "white countries").

My mistake. Sorry.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 03-13-2007, 12:35 PM
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Its cool man. I was kind of hoping you would have drug this one out so I would have to think about it more.
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Old 03-13-2007, 01:03 PM
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Do you think we should keep trying to help out the ME? If there were a way to get out but keep our national security very much in mind would you support that decision?

I just don't think that they are ready to live in "our" time. I'm not saying they should shrug their religious obligations, but I don't think that they are very logical about it.

As far as the australia thing goes, well, I'm all about different people coming in and lending their cultures to the greater collective, and I think that certain freedoms should be protected, but I think that we as westernize societies should have a low tolerance for radical Islamists in our countries. Yeah, they have a right to say what they want, but me and my family and you and your family have a right not to be scared shitless that some ass hole, who thinks we're all godless infidels and says that his is the right way and that it is the goal of his church to subjugate us to sharia law, is going to set off a bomb at our local hang out.
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Neither am I the means to any end others may wish to accomplish. I am not a tool for their use. I am not a servant of their needs. I am not a bandage for their wounds. I am not a sacrifice on their altars. ... I owe nothing to my brothers, nor do I gather debts from them. I ask no one to live for me, nor do I live for others. I covet no mans soul, nor is my soul theirs to covet.

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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 03-13-2007, 01:48 PM
Ygorl Ygorl is offline
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Originally Posted by W.E.B. Du Bois View Post
@ Thane The phrasing of this thread is interesting. It doesn't say "Out Radical Muslims" or "Out Radical Islam", just "Out Muslims."

So, Thane, do you think we should just start throwing out all the Muslims from white countries?

You lost me. Do I think we should just start throwing out all the Muslims from white countries?


I have to say, I haven't the faintest, foggiest idea what you're talking about.


White countries ? Would that be like The Ivory Coast ? There might be another one with a white name like that.


Or maybe you're wanting to paint this into a racial issue ? This issue has nothing to do with race. It has to do with societal and immigrant issues.


People immigrating into another country with different social structure/society need to learn how to integrate INTO the new culture. NOT expect the new culture to adopt to THEIR ways.


That's what this is about. I think you've listened to too much Al not-so Sharpton or Jesse Hi-Jackson. That would explain your reliance on the "it's racism" argument.

Christ, I'd bet you there are even some WHITE MUSLIMS !! What're you talking about LOL
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Old 03-13-2007, 01:52 PM
Ygorl Ygorl is offline
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Ok read 11, 12 and 13 :-) No biggie :-)

Just had to wonder is all LOL
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:02 PM
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OK, I'll ask then, do you think we should throw out all (as opposed to just the most extreme) Muslims from western countries such as Australia, the USA, the UK, etc.
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Old 03-13-2007, 03:19 PM
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No, not if they can get along with everyone else.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 03-13-2007, 03:37 PM
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W.E.B. Du Bois W.E.B. Du Bois is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thane View Post
You lost me. Do I think we should just start throwing out all the Muslims from white countries?


I have to say, I haven't the faintest, foggiest idea what you're talking about.


White countries ? Would that be like The Ivory Coast ? There might be another one with a white name like that.
OK, let's not use the term "white countries" then. Are you saying that all Muslims should be thrown out/excluded from immigration to the US, Europe, Russia and Australia?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thane View Post
People immigrating into another country with different social structure/society need to learn how to integrate INTO the new culture. NOT expect the new culture to adopt to THEIR ways.
I don't agree with that entriely. It's too extreme. I agree that immigrants have to learn to speak the native language, and that Islammic law is not accepted here in the West.

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Originally Posted by Thane View Post
That's what this is about. I think you've listened to too much Al not-so Sharpton or Jesse Hi-Jackson. That would explain your reliance on the "it's racism" argument.
I don't rely on racism arguments at all. I just was trying to talk to you on what I perceive as your political ideals (i.e. anti-Muslim).

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Christ, I'd bet you there are even some WHITE MUSLIMS !! What're you talking about LOL
There undoubtebly are white Muslims.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 03-13-2007, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by FRYandBENDER View Post
Do you think we should keep trying to help out the ME? If there were a way to get out but keep our national security very much in mind would you support that decision?
Well, the way I see the situation is like this: people out there are living in conditions that are fucked up for whatever reason. Bad cultural practices, or corrupt leaders, or the unfairness of our global trade and tariffs, etc, or just accumulated poverty due to past injustices. Whatever the case, people are out there and they are suffering for no good reason.

We're not talking about a few thousand people in the US here who are homeless or poor. We are talking about hundreds of millions of people in the world, a large portion of humanity who are suffering. In general, it is my policy that people who can help should help.

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Originally Posted by FRYandBENDER View Post
I just don't think that they are ready to live in "our" time. I'm not saying they should shrug their religious obligations, but I don't think that they are very logical about it.
Well I think that regardless of where someone is in their historical progression or evolution, they can be on a good track to improving or on a good track to degeneration. I think we should always strive to keep them on the track to improvement.

There are moderate Muslim countries (i.e. Turkey and Malaysia).

Quote:
Originally Posted by FRYandBENDER View Post
As far as the australia thing goes, well, I'm all about different people coming in and lending their cultures to the greater collective, and I think that certain freedoms should be protected, but I think that we as westernize societies should have a low tolerance for radical Islamists in our countries. Yeah, they have a right to say what they want, but me and my family and you and your family have a right not to be scared shitless that some ass hole, who thinks we're all godless infidels and says that his is the right way and that it is the goal of his church to subjugate us to sharia law, is going to set off a bomb at our local hang out.
Well I don't like Islammists and I don't even like headscarves to be quite frank. However, to say "get out Muslims" seems rather bigoted.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 03-13-2007, 04:49 PM
Ygorl Ygorl is offline
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OK, I'll ask then, do you think we should throw out all (as opposed to just the most extreme) Muslims from western countries such as Australia, the USA, the UK, etc.
There ARE times that I think this. Or maybe feel like we should.


When I hear about Muslims that have come here and gotten "offended" by some aspect of American culture, our laws or our way of life and demand that WE change our ways to suit THEM, I feel like removing all of them.


When I heard about 9-11, I felt like removing all of them.


In February 1993, a group of terrorists are arrested after a rented van packed with explosives is driven into the underground parking garage of the World Trade Center in New York City. Six people are killed and over 1000 are injured, I felt like removing all of them.



When I hear what Muslim "jihadists" are willing to do ANYWHERE in the world, I feel like removing all of them. How would we KNOW which ones mean to kill us or NOT ?


Michelle Malkin: Remembering the Beslan massacre


When I read things like the following, YES, I feel like they should all go elsewhere and live the way the want to and let US live the way WE want to. Let them preach how us infidels deserve death ELSEWHERE.


Jihad comes to Small Town, USA


Posted: April 19, 2005 1:00 a.m. Eastern


By Laura Mansfield © 2005 WorldNetDaily.com


It happened again this week. I came out of the office to find a flyer under my windshield wipers inviting me to a special informational presentation on God and family values, and how to bring them back to the forefront in America.


I'm a parent so the flyer caught my interest. But as an analyst for the Northeast Intelligence Network, my eyes were riveted to the address on the flyer: The session was being held at a nearby mosque.


Curiosity got the better of me, and I decided it would be a good time for some onsite investigations of the mosque. In order to not attract undue attention, I dressed conservatively, wearing a navy jumper with a long sleeve white blouse, and low heels. I debated whether or not to put on a hijab (head scarf) then decided not to – after all, I was going to "learn," not to pretend I was a Muslim.


I checked the mosque schedule on the Web, and discovered there was going to be an Arabic language session an hour before. So I showed up an hour early. The imam met me at the door, and told me that the presentation didn't start for an hour, and suggested I come back in an hour. Fortunately, I had anticipated this. I explained that since I had quite a bit of reading to do for a class I was taking. "Can I just sit here and read?"


He hesitated a moment, then agreed. I sat in the back of the room, with my book open, and made a mental note to remember to turn the pages every so often, as I listened to the speakers in Arabic.


The first speaker was the head of the Muslim Students' Association at the nearby university. Although I missed the beginning of the discussion, I caught up quickly. He was talking about the problems he had encountered on a recent trip, when TSA flagged him for extra screening. He joked about the fact that they had stopped him for extensive screening. He had anticipated that he would be screened and he had filled his carryon luggage with printouts of the Quran from the Internet, and had 15 or 16 CDs labeled in Arabic, and he had a notebook computer with him.


As he expected, he was delayed – he thought it was very amusing that while several TSA personnel were scrutinizing his personal belongings that his classmate from Jordan was able to walk through security, along with his American girlfriend, without any problems whatsoever.


One of the men said, in Arabic: "Blonde Americans are good for something!" Another man advised him to be cautious, since there was an American woman in the room. The imam spoke up and told everyone I didn't speak Arabic.


At that point, another student took the podium. His name was Khaled, and he began to recount his recent trip to New York City. Khaled and three of his companions had gone to New York for several days in January. He told of how uncomfortable his trip up to NYC had been. He felt like he was being watched, and thought he was the victim of racial profiling.


Khaled and his friends were pretty unhappy about it, and while in New York, they came up with a plan to "teach a lesson" to the passengers and crew. You can imagine the story Khaled told. He described how he and his friends whispered to each other on the flight, made simultaneous visits to the restroom, and generally tried to "spook" the other passengers. He laughed when he described how several women were in tears, and one man sitting near him was praying.


The others in the room thought the story was quite amusing, judging from the laughter. The imam stood up and told the group that this was a kind of peaceful civil disobedience that should be encouraged, and commended Khaled and his friends for their efforts.


He pointed out that it was through this kind of civil disobedience that ethnic profiling would fail.



One of the other men, Ahmed from Kuwait, gave a brief account of his friend Eyad, who had finally gone to Iraq. Ahmed was in e-mail contact with Eyad, and hoped by the following week to be able to bring them more information about the state of the "mujahideen" in Iraq.


As the meeting drew to a close, the imam gave a brief speech calling for the protection of Allah on the mujahideen fighting for Islam throughout the world, and reminded everyone that it was their duty as Muslims to continue in the path of jihad, whether it was simple efforts like those of Khaled and his friends, or the actual physical fighting of men like Eyad.


As the meeting broke up, several women in hijabs came in the room, and two of them sat with me. They were very warm and
friendly and welcoming, and appeared to be clearly thrilled that I was there. They asked me questions about who I was, and why I was interested in the session.


By the time the session began, there were half a dozen American women, four of them African-American. Where the previous session had definite anti-American tones, this session was all American and Apple Pie. The earlier session had been in Arabic – this one was in English.


The woman leading the session, Nafisa, told of the concerns she had regarding her daughters in the public-school system. She complained about the influence of the MTV culture, and seemed concerned about the rampant sexuality that pervaded all facets of American life, from television to movies and on into the school system.


She explained her personal solution – the local Islamic school, beginning with kindergarten. Instead of worrying about her daughters dressing provocatively and behaving inappropriately with boys, she talked about the modest school uniforms they wore, and the single-gender classes her daughters attended.


She then began to discuss Islam, focusing on the commonalities it has with Christianity. The sales pitch had clearly begun. While in the previous section, the men had quoted over and over again sura from the Quran calling for violent jihad, the women's session focused on the "gentler" side of Islam.


The same imam who demanded that the men continue in the path of jihad did a complete 180-degree turn in this session, stressing instead the suras that promoted the "brotherhood" between Muslims, Christians and Jews. "After all, we worship the same God, and follow the teachings in the books he gave each of us. We are all the same, we are all People of the Book," he stressed.


The differences between the sessions were striking. Clearly the second session was a recruiting session.


Were the women aware of what was being taught in the first session? Certainly those women who spoke Arabic should have been.


The reason for concern is obvious: Two different doctrines are being promoted. One peaceful, friendly, warm and fuzzy doctrine is being used to draw people in, with a focus on the well-being of their children.

But the Arabic-speaking sessions clearly have an anti-American tone.

It shows clearly that as much as we'd like to pretend it hasn't, jihad has reached Small-Town, USA.


This mosque isn't in Washington, D.C., or New York City. This is a small mosque in a small town in the deep South. And if it's in this tiny little quiet southern town, it's probably in your hometown, too.


http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43868
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