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11-13-2007, 03:33 PM
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Napolitano or Sebelius for VP; make history, Obama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SukuWatalu
 Dear Du Bois,
If you think my answers are absurd, it is because your questions are absurd. My answers are just like a mirror as it reflects everything back to the strawman and allows him to see the stupidity of his questions.
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Actually you were the only one who was asking stupid questions about the President, the Congress and the American people. I never asked any questions about those, so there were no stupid questions for you to reflect upon and thus the stupidity of your comments must have been drawn from your own ideas about American politics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SukuWatalu
Your first question: "Is this an article from somewhere on the internet?" Are you alleging that I have copied this article from another writer somewhere on the Internet? If indeed this is what you mean, I am quite flatterred by it and most probably I shall change my job to a newspaper editor. This simple piece of opinion, unfortunately, is not a great masterpiece. It is mine, and it speaks my opinion on the U.S. foreign policy. If you really think this is a masterpiece that has been written by a famous writer, I am really flattered by your allegation. By the way, where on the Internet have you seen this article before? Please show and prove it to me. I really like to have a look at it. If your allegation proves to be true, it is really a case of "Great minds think alike".
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I would say that this statement is nothing more than a sham. You acknowledge my question as a question and then in the very next statement you say that it is "alleging." You just said that it is a question. So what you say is not consistent with itself. On the one hand you say that that sentence is a question and then you say that it is "alleging." You are maintaining that it is two different things. Before you break your arm patting yourself on the back for all the things you've assumed, maybe you should strive for a little bit of consistency first.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SukuWatalu
Next, in replying to your absurd comment on the analogy of "one person with a dual personality", I have to say that I liken the U.S. and China to two political entities or two governments.
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Your mischaracterization of my comments as absurd is based upon your failed trap of saying that you reflected my question with another question. As I never asked you a question about the US's population or government you have failed even in the execution of this worthless trap. Your trap would have failed even if it had been executed properly, but you failed to even execute it properly so that it makes sense, and thus it's quite pathetic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SukuWatalu
This is the common practice of newspapers and political magazines. For example, when a newspaper published a news saying that "Country A (with a population of 300 million) signed a trade agreement with Country B (with a population of 100 million), it meant that "the government of Country A signed a trade agreement with the government of Country B". It did not mean that 300 million people holding 300 million pens signed on a giant piece of paper together with 100 million people holding 100 million pens.
Similarly, when a history book says that "Japan invaded China in the 1930s", it means that the Japanese army invaded the country of China in the 1930s. It does not mean that a non-living piece of land could invade another non-living piece of land.
My whole article was a criticism of the "inconsistency of U.S. foreign policy". Hence I liken the U.S. regime to "the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing" like someone affected with Parkinson's Disease. Please don't twist my article into saying that I allege all the 300 million Americans are having Parkinson's Disease. Please also don't try to deviate from the real argument of my topic to your allegation that my article is not original.
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None of this defends the assumption in your comment or "article" or whatever it is. Your article assumes that the US is one man: I presume the one person is the President. This assumption is easily disproven by showing that not only is there a President who determines policy, but there are also 535 congressmen. Understanding the basic facts disproves your key assumption.
As for deviating, deviating can be avoided if you can refrain from asking stupid questions, strawman tactics and having difficulties in analyzing simple facts.
WEB
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11-13-2007, 03:40 PM
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Napolitano or Sebelius for VP; make history, Obama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SukuWatalu
 Dear Brother Oz,
Well said! At last we have somebody admitting the inconsistency of U.S. foreign policy! That's why sometimes even a friendly country or an ally could accuse the U.S. of meddling in its internal affairs.
With such inconsistency, it is difficult for the U.S. leadership to accomplish anything with other countries. For instance, in the APEC meeting, Bush can shake hands and reach agreement with Hu after a lengthy "frank and friendly" discussion, but by the next day all agreements with the Chinese leader can be overturned even by his own party.
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Now if we can at least have someone who does not ask stupid questions to defend their argument! "  "
In any case, the question is not the consistency or inconsistency of US foreign policy but of the homogoneity or mixture of foreign policies advocated by different US public officials. Where your argument fails, is that it treats the US government as one person, when the major actors who determine US foreign policy actually number 536! So 536 people who have different foreign policies is not inconsistent, it is not HOMOGENOUS. Applying common sense, we should not expect any free society to be composed of 536 national representative who have the same opinion. Really, your criticism of US foreign policy appears to be little more than an attempt to discredit the concept of democracy because you believe in Chinese authoritarianism and concentrate mostly in advancing Chinese nationalism.
I'm sorry that you feel the Chinese people are not intelligent enough to govern themselves. I disagree with that.
WEB
Last edited by W.E.B. Du Bois : 11-13-2007 at 03:44 PM.
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11-13-2007, 05:21 PM
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Conscript
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 44
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 Dear Du Bois,
First, I wish to comment on your first question "Is this an article from somewhere on the internet?" This question is rude and insulting bordering on absurdity. Tempers would definitely flare up if everybody begins his message with such a question in all the forums on the Internet.
Try asking any writer or author this question at a book promotion but prepare yourself for any eventuality by wearing a crash helmet: "Is your story or idea from somewhere else?"
When I said "the U.S. is suffering from Parkinson's Disease or some sorts of mental problems with the result that 'the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing'", I was criticizing the inconsistency of the U.S. foreign policy by comparing the U.S. political establishment to a person with a dual personality. It is flawed reasoning and lack of common sense for you to take my analogy literally by labelling it as an "initial assumption" and bringing out the irrelevant point that "the US is not composed of one person, but 300 million".
Taking another example, sometime ago I saw a cartoon in a Southeast Asian country's Chinese newspaper satiring the Japanese government's policy on wartime atrocities. The cartoon depicted a Japanese man bowing low in apology but standing back to back behind him was a Sumo wrestler bowing to the notorious Japanese war shrine. It would be illogical for a Japanese reader who saw the cartoon to argue that the cartoon was flawed by highlighting the huge population of Japan. What the cartoon represented figuratively was the Japanese political establishment. So is my analogy with the U.S. It is absurd to take the analogy literally by highlighting the entire U.S. population of 300 million people.
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11-13-2007, 05:28 PM
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Moderator
Napolitano or Sebelius for VP; make history, Obama
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Join Date: Oct 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SukuWatalu
 Dear Du Bois,
First, I wish to comment on your first question "Is this an article from somewhere on the internet?" This question is rude and insulting bordering on absurdity. Tempers would definitely flare up if everybody begins his message with such a question in all the forums on the Internet.
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Well this comment is totally wrong. I will leave it to each individual member on this forum to come to their own conclusion to see if it was right or wrong for me to ask "Is this an article from somewhere on the internet?" Most people will say that it was a fair and necessary question as the forum rules state that people must post their opinion on any article they present to start a thread.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SukuWatalu
Try asking any writer or author this question at a book promotion but prepare yourself for any eventuality by wearing a crash helmet: "Is your story or idea from somewhere else?"
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I'll keep that in mind for when this internet forum magically transforms itself into a Barnes & Nobles. Thanks for the tip.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SukuWatalu
When I said "the U.S. is suffering from Parkinson's Disease or some sorts of mental problems with the result that 'the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing'", I was criticizing the inconsistency of the U.S. foreign policy by comparing the U.S. political establishment to a person with a dual personality. It is flawed reasoning and lack of common sense for you to take my analogy literally by labelling it as an "initial assumption" and bringing out the irrelevant point that "the US is not composed of one person, but 300 million".
Taking another example, sometime ago I saw a cartoon in a Southeast Asian country's Chinese newspaper satiring the Japanese government's policy on wartime atrocities. The cartoon depicted a Japanese man bowing low in apology but standing back to back behind him was a Sumo wrestler bowing to the notorious Japanese war shrine. It would be illogical for a Japanese reader who saw the cartoon to argue that the cartoon was flawed by highlighting the huge population of Japan. What the cartoon represented figuratively was the Japanese political establishment. So is my analogy with the U.S. It is absurd to take the analogy literally by highlighting the entire U.S. population of 300 million people.
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Well let's make this nice and simple. Your point of reference seems to be China, which definitely operates more along the lines of a hive mentality. A handful of men (probably the CCP standing committee) agree on one course of action and the Party Chairman is the one who delivers that set of policies. Obviously, the US is not an oligarchy and one would only expect total homogeneity of opinion from each member of Congress and the President in an actual democracy like the US.
WEB
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11-14-2007, 02:58 AM
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Conscript
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 44
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 Dear Du Bois,
Some more comments on your first question: "Is this an article from somewhere on the internet?"
It is rude, insulting and annoying bordering on absurdity, with mischievous implication if not allegation.
Another of your mischievous implication is found in your so-called presumption: "Your article assumes that the US is one man: I presume the one person is the President."
As I had said before, I used the term U.S. for the political establishment of the country, as is the usual practice of newspapers. Don't tell me that your countrymen, including you, are foolish enough to elect a Parkinson Disease patient to be their President.
You said: "In any case, the question is not the consistency or inconsistency of US foreign policy but of the homogoneity or mixture of foreign policies advocated by different US public officials. Where your argument fails, is that it treats the US government as one person, when the major actors who determine US foreign policy actually number 536! So 536 people who have different foreign policies is not inconsistent, it is not HOMOGENOUS. "
If "the major actors who determine US foreign policy actually number 536!" as claimed by you, the U.S. might as well set up 536 Departments of State headed by 536 Secretaries of State! And you have the cheeks to claim that "536 people who have different foreign policies is not inconsistent, it is not HOMOGENOUS".
In other words, all other countries must prepare to cope with 536 different foreign policies in its dealing with the U.S. It must also prepare to sign 536 accords in every dealing with the U.S. You have the cheeks to consider 536 foreign policies as one consistent policy. How ridiculous! It sounds like a fairy tale from the Arabian Nights!
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