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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2007, 02:48 PM
Aya Aya is offline
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Originally Posted by Brother Oz View Post
But America likes to be able to say that its influence on its allies makes them move towards democracy.
That's an interesting argument. But through support of a military regime you just hope that they will held the pro-west course, you support them, there is may hope of democracy, but honestly, you don't do best work if you support a military regime.
Remember with the Shah in Iran? He committed human rights violations as Musharraf is doing now (and did before also).
If you support Pakistan or Iran or whatever, you support oppression and human rights violations and nothing else.
Have you ever seen any democracy or just a try of it under Hussein or Musharraf or for several decades ago under the Shah?
That simply doesn't work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Oz View Post
Which is why they got Musharraf to agree to work with Bhutto.
What did they? Sorry, but that sounds rather illogical. The situation escalated as Bhutto arrived and if there would be a takeover, probably the extremists would gain the power and we would have a big problem with this atomc weapons bent on us. I don't think that it would be in american interests to destabilize the situation in Pakistan through Bhutto - what happened because of her in my opinion.

Last edited by Aya : 11-06-2007 at 03:01 PM.
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2007, 03:29 PM
Brother Oz Brother Oz is offline
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Quote:
If you support Pakistan or Iran or whatever, you support oppression and human rights violations and nothing else.
Have you ever seen any democracy or just a try of it under Hussein or Musharraf or for several decades ago under the Shah?
That simply doesn't work.
I agree. I'm just saying that's part of their justification in the Neo-con ideology.

Quote:
What did they? Sorry, but that sounds rather illogical. The situation escalated as Bhutto arrived and if there would be a takeover, probably the extremists would gain the power and we would have a big problem with this atomc weapons bent on us. I don't think that it would be in american interests to destabilize the situation in Pakistan through Bhutto - what happened because of her in my opinion.
I don't think they expected the situation to escalate like this (it's not just her, it's also the supreme court business at the same time that caused all this). They believed that she would bring democratic justification, and all the pro-democracy liberals would cheer.
America under-estimated the power of the Islamists and over-estimated the power of the pro-democracy Liberals.
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2007, 04:58 PM
Viv Viv is offline
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Wasn't that regime persona non grata until we needed a military base near Iraq/Iran?
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 11-06-2007, 06:40 PM
Brother Oz Brother Oz is offline
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Afghanistan, to be exact.
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... I am surprised at your insolence in writing to me at all. You know, as I know, that I bought this constituency... may God's curse light upon you and may it make your women as open and as free to the excise officers as your wives and daughters have always been to me while I have represented your scoundrel corporation.
I have the honour to be... your obliged humble servant, Anthony Henley
- MPs reply to constituent, mid 1700s
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