Kyrgyzstan On The Edge - Political Forum

CHUQ · 11-10-2006, 05:38 AM

A crisis report on the situation in Kyrgyzstan.

International Crisis Group - Kyrgyzstan on the Edge

Any thoughts?

Public_Enemy · 11-10-2006, 12:42 PM

Kyrgystan is not diffrent than other places which western world tried to spread "democrasy" and immediatly ppl started kill eachother, today most prosper and peacefull central asian state is turkmenistan which has strict dictatorship.

Slartibartfas · 11-10-2006, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Public_Enemy

Kyrgystan is not diffrent than other places which western world tried to spread "democrasy" and immediatly ppl started kill eachother, today most prosper and peacefull central asian state is turkmenistan which has strict dictatorship.

Do you only oppose the desastrous and perhaps even criminal way the US with blind assistance of GB "promotes" democracy in the world through war. Or do you oppose democracy as such?

Public_Enemy · 11-10-2006, 07:44 PM

I am not against democrasy, but it is up to that nation's prosperity , culture and education level. Once ppl reach some certain level, become modern ppl, they would demand democracy and most probably would get it this way or that way.

There are some stages of democrasy, first it needs a wealth, if there is powerty you can built democrasy. Lets imagine an undemocratic counrty, most probably ruling class would have all wealth and keep ppl uneducated. Other classes of such country would start struggling for the distribution of wealth and to help their struggle, they would educate theirselves, than they would become a power and get some share from the wealth, than a lower class would start to struggle etc..This is the natural way of developing democrasy in a soceity, you can't accularate this process from abroad and usually it takes long time.

On the other hand, western democrasy is not suitable for all cultures and regions , it looks alien to many ppl and sometimes it could cause their total decline of democrasy.

Another subject, if a big majority of a country is happy with an undemocratic rule, let them enjoy life like that.

Slartibartfas · 11-11-2006, 03:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Public_Enemy

I am not against democrasy, but it is up to that nation's prosperity , culture and education level. Once ppl reach some certain level, become modern ppl, they would demand democracy and most probably would get it this way or that way.

There are some stages of democrasy, first it needs a wealth, if there is powerty you can built democrasy. Lets imagine an undemocratic counrty, most probably ruling class would have all wealth and keep ppl uneducated. Other classes of such country would start struggling for the distribution of wealth and to help their struggle, they would educate theirselves, than they would become a power and get some share from the wealth, than a lower class would start to struggle etc..This is the natural way of developing democrasy in a soceity, you can't accularate this process from abroad and usually it takes long time.

On the other hand, western democrasy is not suitable for all cultures and regions , it looks alien to many ppl and sometimes it could cause their total decline of democrasy.

Another subject, if a big majority of a country is happy with an undemocratic rule, let them enjoy life like that.

I agree with you that its hard to accelerate this. If not impossible. You cant force democracy on those countries thats right.

But tell me whats so alien of "western democracy" for other cultures? And far more interesting how is a "non western democracy" supposed to look like and where does it differ from a western one?

CHUQ · 11-11-2006, 04:48 AM

Since democracy is a subjective term and therre are about as many definitions as there are people. If democracy is what one seeks then it should be decided by the local people of how it should progress and how it would function.

Public_Enemy · 11-11-2006, 09:59 AM

Democracy requires some certain level of modernity melted with local culture. Unfortunatly most of the eastern societies couldn't develop their own modernity yet. Most of them don't have enough funds to support modernity infact, you can't expect modernity from the ppl who don't have access to very basic requirments like clean water and other infrastructures. Somes try to import western modernity as a base of democrasy which doesn't work syncronized with local culture. It only creates some elites while masses reject it. And those elites usually block wealth distribution as a paradox.

Slartibartfas · 11-11-2006, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHUQ

Since democracy is a subjective term and therre are about as many definitions as there are people. If democracy is what one seeks then it should be decided by the local people of how it should progress and how it would function.

Well, there are some minum requirements for democracy. The essential one is that the government (no matter how it looks like) can be brought to fall against its own will in an stable and civlized way. And may it be only at the elections every few years.

Democracies can in fact be very different from each others. Especially when they exist outside of the western hemisphere. But there are minimal requirements for it, you can not sold everything you like as democracy.

Apart from that, you are right, the very own people the state is supposed to govern have to support the system.

Tumbleweed · 11-11-2006, 12:38 PM

Democracy.

Our country needs to quit trying to impose our values on the rest of the world. If people want democracy, let them fight for it themselves, just like we did.

CHUQ · 11-12-2006, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tumbleweed

Democracy.

Our country needs to quit trying to impose our values on the rest of the world. If people want democracy, let them fight for it themselves, just like we did.

Agreed. Democracy can not be imposed by force of arms, Iraq is a prime example, to state the obvious.