Troianii

My thoughts exactly.

Snow Patrol

this is one of those ideas that can destroy our earth with us on it. we have to respect other aspects of life.

we, our lives, our science, are not more important than anything which lives on this earth. we are just one of them and lucky enough to have the inteligence to enjoy more. just hope we are smart enough to know our limits.

Luke

Neuroscience is extremely complicated. As far as I know, pigeons and rats are particularly easy because their brain functions are more segmented. Other animals, like snakes or fish, which are "lower" than pigeons and rats, are much harder to do these types of brain experiments, not to mention monkeys of humans.

But if this technology can be used to human brains also with good cloning technology and artificial uteras, it is very exciting and interesting to watch. There is no need to worry, because at that time, there will sure be new technology to anti this technology... By the way, I am sure that America has done similar experiments.

Sebelius for VP, not Hillary

wtf is an alibi argument?

What is your argument? That it's ok because the US and Europe does it? Or is there any scientific benefit from this?

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Luke

This can encourage more understanding of neurosicence. Neuro Science is my favorite part of biology.

Slartibartfas

Ehm, better forget it. Appearantly a word that does not exist in English so it might mean pretty much nothing. Translate it with: "I dont agree with your arguement"


Hell of course there is a scientific benefit from this. Those brain - information technology interface researches are for sure not limited on China. And for a good reason. They are an important part of the research on how the brain works exactly and also how one coul connect it directly to computers.

Of course this is basic science. So in short, yes there is scientific benefit from this.

Your question should be: Is it ethical?

And thats a good question. But honestly if applied on birds I dont see such a great disaster. They do not have any means for self reflection. They would not even realize it that something is going wrong. At higher life forms, such an experiment would lead most probably to a large confusion for the animal and most likely to unpredictable reactions. Moreover I would say that I would view such experiments at mammals already far stricter than with birds. Not only isit from eg an lets say Elephant to an human not so far anymore, and this will be also be possible to be considered animal abuse. (Thats why actually small mammals will be rather the first ones to be tried, not that would be more moral though)

So in short: No I have no problem with that what Chinese scientists achieved. My sorries are about what the overnext thing will be they (or from any other country) achieve.

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Slartibartfas

Well, back than 60 years ago where was the anti technology against industrial genocide? Industrial war far? Didn't worked out too well.
I doubt that the human race got better in the meanwhile.

But you are right, the human brain and understanding it fully is utterly complicated. Thats where my relief lies in.

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Sebelius for VP, not Hillary

An alibi is usually used when police men are interrogating suspects. Like a person under investigation needs an alibi (where he was) when a crime was taking place.

I still do have trouble seeing the merits of this experiment. From the article:

Well, I am still wondering what scientific merit this has, and if it's not just fucking around with pidgeons.

Also, I found it disturbing, winter's comments, which seems to have the logic anything China does is justifiable because the West is evil.

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Snow Patrol

it's likely that the intention would be spying. just attach an emitter to the pigeon, and send it where ever you want

Slartibartfas

WEB, what merit does the new experiment at CERN near Geneva have? It costs more than just one fortune, (I think the costs for building a few nuclear power plants) and will lead to no direct product or anything else one could make money from. Only some spin offs, but thats all.

Do you think Chinese scientists do this just for fun. Because model planes are so hard to get in China?

I can very well understand that the scientists did not publish the specific merits. They simply do not want to share with the rest of the world.

Neurobiology is an increasingly important field of biology. And one important part of it is to find out how one con interact with the brain directly. To try this right from the start with the most difficult brains is nonsense. You won't get much answers. But if you start with the more segmented bird brains, you can study first attempts. You can learn which basic rules such an interaction can follow. You can also improve the technology itself that is used as interface on real experiments, not just in theory. And when this field is mastered you can go on, and try to find a way to more complex organized brains.


Is it so difficult to see a scientific merit? Or what do you consider a merit? I hope that does not limit to a possible product that has to be available within the next 5 years on the market. Thats hardcore capitalist science. (Necessary as well but not the sole kind we need). The increase of knowledge and know how is at least as important in science. And those experiments clearly serve that purpose.

I would not even surprised if those experiments would also have the goal of military applications. Of course China will never tell you that. Understanably, as the US or any other country would not either.

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