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05-06-2008, 08:23 PM
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MM Lee Kuan Yew: Beijing leads new approach to growth
MM Lee Kuan Yew: Beijing leads new approach to growth
A NEW school of thought is emerging on what a country needs to grow economically.
And leading it is China, which will use the upcoming Olympic Games as a platform to put across its message on growth, said Minister Mentor Lee Kuan Yew.
In highlighting the China model, he said: 'There is now growing a certain Beijing Consensus that is different from the Washington Consensus.
'What is it you need to grow? Order, certainty, consistency, hard work, market-friendly policies, savings and investments, trade, education and training.'
This is a shift from the development model touted by the United States since the early 1990s, which stresses open economies and minimal state intervention, and is based on the superiority of democratic politics.
Mr Lee described the China phenomenon in an interview last Tuesday with Bloomberg News. The transcript was released by his office yesterday.
He noted that China has been conveying its message on the attributes for growth to leaders around the world and 'the Olympics will be another occasion'.
In particular, leaders in Asia, Africa and elsewhere in the developing world 'are asking themselves, how did this country, in 30 years, from such backwardness, suddenly make this great big leap into modernity'.
During the interview, Mr Lee spoke on issues both local and global - ranging from Singapore's political- succession challenge to China's handling of the Tibet issue.
While he commented favourably on what he anticipates will be an Olympic Games of 'world standards', he was critical of the way China had handled the Tibet protests.
For instance, it ordered the foreign media out of Tibet when riots broke out in March.
'Had they engaged the West, all this would have turned out differently,' said Mr Lee, referring to the protests that dogged the global Olympic torch relay.
'Why didn't they? Because there was a chasm between their mental make-up and that of the West.
'So they say, 'All Western correspondents out' - that means you have got something to hide. I think that was not very wise.'
China, he added, 'should learn to...take the Western media on the Western media's terms'.
So, if pro-Tibetan protesters were to turn up at the Games' opening ceremony and the Western media plays it up, Mr Lee said this is what he would do: 'If I were them, I would expect that and say, 'So what?''.
After all, he added, 'what the media says and what the impressions leaders and top leaders take away are two different things'.
But unfortunately, China is still set in its 'old' mindset, in the way it reacts, he said.
'But they're learning.'
Getting out of this mindset is its biggest challenge.
'The day they build up an educated middle class, huge numbers of whom have been educated abroad... and they are the people setting policies at the top, not people whose mental mindsets are from Soviet days, that day, they will find they can play by the Western rules and win.'
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05-06-2008, 08:50 PM
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Knight
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Ohhhh CCP, how funny art thou.
You deny the Washington Consensus, yet unwillingly you fall in its track like every other country. You merely pay lip-service to an anti-western ideology but do everything to emulate it in your economic policies. Still, there's a Mcdonald's that faces Tian an men Square.
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05-06-2008, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smallpox
Ohhhh CCP, how funny art thou.
You deny the Washington Consensus, yet unwillingly you fall in its track like every other country. You merely pay lip-service to an anti-western ideology but do everything to emulate it in your economic policies. Still, there's a Mcdonald's that faces Tian an men Square.
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No one deny Western's ideology that has helped shape the world we are today. But whether or not it is still relevant for progress tomorrow is yet to be seen. Similarly, you westerners do copy alot from ancient Chinese civilisation as well. Products such as paper, printing machines, wheels and many other inventions are being use till today are also from China. So, based on your ideology, you should be thankful to China too?
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05-06-2008, 10:25 PM
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Knight
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No one, except your article says the CCP wants to do away with the Washington Consensus and replace it with an conveniently similar Beijing Consensus....
It is relevant for progress in the future, especially considering China is still 50 years behind the other world powers. Is there any reason why economic laws and theories would not apply in the future? You have anything empirically substantial behind that rather than mere moral opposition to what you consider different from the Chinese way (even though it is a social axiom).
I don't think the invention of the wheel was imported from China into Europe. Regardless, no one is denying Chinese influence. I don't see why a technology that travel through the normal process of culture exchange and trade mean anything anyways. What's being thankful to China?
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05-06-2008, 11:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smallpox
No one, except your article says the CCP wants to do away with the Washington Consensus and replace it with an conveniently similar Beijing Consensus....
It is relevant for progress in the future, especially considering China is still 50 years behind the other world powers. Is there any reason why economic laws and theories would not apply in the future? You have anything empirically substantial behind that rather than mere moral opposition to what you consider different from the Chinese way (even though it is a social axiom).
I don't think the invention of the wheel was imported from China into Europe. Regardless, no one is denying Chinese influence. I don't see why a technology that travel through the normal process of culture exchange and trade mean anything anyways. What's being thankful to China?
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What I posted here is what being said by MM Lee Kuan Yew who is well respected throughout the world especially in asia. Whatever he says has certain amount of truth in it but also depends on how you want to intrepret with it as well. China being 50 years behind developed countries is a widely known phenomenon even among the chinese people. It is a no brainer for you to specifically point it out over here. What you failed to figure out is that even at that low technological knowledge they have compared to developed countries, they still could produce more than 60 percent of goods to this world. What's not if they are as advance technologically as japan and USA.
Another matter. Whether you be thankful to China, your country, your neighbourhood, your teacher, your mother, your father does not bother me. What you think does not hold any weight to me nor to this world
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05-07-2008, 12:14 AM
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Knight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwc
What I posted here is what being said by MM Lee Kuan Yew who is well respected throughout the world especially in asia. Whatever he says has certain amount of truth in it but also depends on how you want to intrepret with it as well.
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What a load of fallacies. Because he is respected, it must be true? If you're not going to back him up beyond that, I have no reason to share emotional sentiments rather than rational ones regarding his opinions.
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China being 50 years behind developed countries is a widely known phenomenon even among the chinese people. It is a no brainer for you to specifically point it out over here.
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I was responding to your idea that economic development was unpredictable. So it's a kind of a given that I would bring it up. Why wouldn't I? It's not like China is the first country in the world to industrialize. Is bringing up this crucial fact making you feel threatened for China?
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What you failed to figure out is that even at that low technological knowledge they have compared to developed countries, they still could produce more than 60 percent of goods to this world. What's not if they are as advance technologically as japan and USA.
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There's not much contest between China and the US. China still has a predominantly farmer population, lack democratic avenues for the people, and outside agriculture still relies on manufacturing.
The US makes Boeing and nuclear reactors while China exports tooth brushes and cheap DVD players. Advanced economies are post-industrial, they have a dominant service sector that runs the economy. China is still in the middle between agrarian and industrial. The only way you can ambiguously compare China to the US, is because of absolute rates from the giant population (that is quickly aging BTW), no one can argue against the fact that per-capita rates are much more relevant for the whole economic well-being of a nation.
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Another matter. Whether you be thankful to China, your country, your neighbourhood, your teacher, your mother, your father does not bother me. What you think does not hold any weight to me nor to this world
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My teacher, neighbor, mother and father are actual people with merits, and shortcomings. A nation though, is just a piece of land with arbitrary border lines and given special significant only via socially constructed myths.
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05-07-2008, 12:18 AM
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Squire
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Lee Kuan Yew - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I'm afraid that KWC is right on this one. Lee Kuan Yew is not some crackhead from CCP china. This guy was born in Signapore and was responsible for the Authoritarian government who lead to the economic prosperity to Signapore which eventually led to democracy. He believes that praising China for leading in that same direction.
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05-07-2008, 12:41 AM
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Knight
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pug_ster
Lee Kuan Yew - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I'm afraid that KWC is right on this one. Lee Kuan Yew is not some crackhead from CCP china. This guy was born in Signapore and was responsible for the Authoritarian government who lead to the economic prosperity to Signapore which eventually led to democracy. He believes that praising China for leading in that same direction.
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Strawman. I never said Lee Kuan Yew was some crackhead and I know who he is. Merely that it's not because he's a political figure that he has some sort of over-bearing baseless infallible opinion. We've went over this how many times so far? Singapore is not a good example for China. Singapore has a small population, mostly rich business people from neighboring countries and a strong urbanized middle class.
Last edited by smallpox : 05-07-2008 at 12:46 AM.
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05-07-2008, 02:42 AM
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Conscript
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smallpox
What a load of fallacies. Because he is respected, it must be true? If you're not going to back him up beyond that, I have no reason to share emotional sentiments rather than rational ones regarding his opinions.
I was responding to your idea that economic development was unpredictable. So it's a kind of a given that I would bring it up. Why wouldn't I? It's not like China is the first country in the world to industrialize. Is bringing up this crucial fact making you feel threatened for China?
There's not much contest between China and the US. China still has a predominantly farmer population, lack democratic avenues for the people, and outside agriculture still relies on manufacturing.
The US makes Boeing and nuclear reactors while China exports tooth brushes and cheap DVD players. Advanced economies are post-industrial, they have a dominant service sector that runs the economy. China is still in the middle between agrarian and industrial. The only way you can ambiguously compare China to the US, is because of absolute rates from the giant population (that is quickly aging BTW), no one can argue against the fact that per-capita rates are much more relevant for the whole economic well-being of a nation.
My teacher, neighbor, mother and father are actual people with merits, and shortcomings. A nation though, is just a piece of land with arbitrary border lines and given special significant only via socially constructed myths.
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You are really speaking things out of context. I didnt saying whatever MM Lee Kuan Yew says is 100 % true. What I did say, if you mind, is that whatever he says has CERTAIN AMOUNT of truth in it. Not PURELY TRUE. If he is unintelligible, he will not be respected and his statements will not be well read. Comparibly, if Warren Buffett would be making some statements about current economics in US, it is stupid to view against him. Its not that he will not be wrong but the amount of truth in it is more than any of us here might have thought otherwise. Anyway, it is a waste of time arguing such a common sense with you.
All countries has its up and down especially a country as big as China. What would you expect from a country with as many as a billion plus people. All its problems will be magnified few times more.
What you are saying shows how unintelligible you are and how little knowledge you have in economics. Well, Australia, New Zealand, US and Canada has major economy in agriculture as well. According to your argument, how can they be developed? I am not saying China is developed now mind you. I do agree with you and it is something obvious that do not need a rocket scientist to figure out that China is still not advanced. But although they are not as advanced presumedly as with US, Japan, or other technological advanced nations, they are catching up fast. This year they will be conducting a space walk. Mind you again! I WAS SAYING CATCHING UP! So, it doesn't matter ten or twenty years ago US did this or Russia did that ok.
Boeing? They source many parts from China as well especially their wings. China is developing a regional jet now. Like I said again, they are still catching up and not there yet. You were saying also China only produces toothbrushes? Darn you this shows how ignorant you are. You sure failed miserably in life because of your close mindset and ignorant views. They are currently the largest producer of laptops, LCD tvs, mobile phones and many other things you use at home.
I am not in a view that China will fly directly to the sky without any barriers. In between their rise, there would be some conflict and some ups and downs that they need to solve. You might not be able to see it now but your children and grandchildren might some day plead to learn chinese. I am saying Might, ok, not definite! If you choose to view negatively on all things China and be ignorant instead of seeing the opportunity, thats your own mistake.
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05-07-2008, 02:59 AM
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Conscript
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Join Date: Dec 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smallpox
Strawman. I never said Lee Kuan Yew was some crackhead and I know who he is. Merely that it's not because he's a political figure that he has some sort of over-bearing baseless infallible opinion. We've went over this how many times so far? Singapore is not a good example for China. Singapore has a small population, mostly rich business people from neighboring countries and a strong urbanized middle class.
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Here shows how ignorant you are again on this one. Singaporeans are now flocking to invest in China leaving the doubtful and scaring people like you hiding in the hut. Warren Buffett also has invested in China and says he will be investing there as well in the future when the law is figured out right. Singaporeans helped develop suzhou industrial park there and make it into a success. They are currently planning an eco city jointly developed with chinese people there.
Yes, Singapore now is an urbanised and rich city but they are not inheritedly given of their wealth. When Malaysia disbanded them, they are just a poor fishing village without basic necessity such as water and oil. They have developed though hard work and persistency to such a nation they are today. China is learning from them and also from other nations as well. It seems your idea and prophecy is more fallible than you may want to admit.
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