anybody tell me what the hell is the correlation between Tibet and Tian An Men Square 1989?

They wouldn't need to resort to any of this if there was an electoral system in place and freedom of speech. Dissidents would reach their goals through verbal and intellectual means.
I didn't hear about anyone getting their ears chewed out during the 1995 Quebec referendum.

It's for everyone. Even China can't evade liberalism, at least economically speaking so far. It is a social axiom that applies to everyone. Inter state wars, genocide, poverty, have ALL went down since the end of the Cold War everywhere in the world (except Sub Sahara Africa in certain aspect -- that's a different story) and the start of widespread liberalism. You're either a liberal society, reforming to a liberal society or North Korea. That is the world we live in right now.

What Bush says is a LOT more influential than what Hu Jing Tao says. Because Bush is elected, he represents the American people. Hu Jing Tao represents 50 or so million CCP members (even then, only the National Assembly gets to vote on the presidency, if memory serves me well -- further reducing the number of those involved in making Hu Jing Tao legitimate).

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Oh, Chaochao was talking about how Chinese history was important for everyone. I couldn't find that thread, so I posted it in our most recent conversation and specified it.

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Of course when discussing political issues, we can't ignore the history!
And regarding the "removal of facts", it is US presidents who often do that!
I know what you mean, the Tiananmen affair in 1989! I admit CCP used some fierce ways, althoug CCP doesn't talk that history, I know there were bloody things happened because one of my uncle‘s friend was ever one police experiencing that affair.
Things at that moment were just like things happened in German on May 1st, 2008! I suggest German people should abandon their evil gov who violates human rights and crackdown people!

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借我三千虎贲，复我浩荡中华! 汉旗指处，望尘逃遁！敢犯我中华天威者，虽远必诛!

your justifying those violence?

we will reform to a liberal society, but this does not mean Tibet can be seperated. do you know the Dalai Lama's Greater Tibet plan? that is way too ridiculous.

no offense but i think what Stephen Harper states is alot less influential than Hu Jin Tao. he is elected too, rite?

and also, What Bush states is so influential that you joined in Iraq war too huh?

What kind of BS is it to compare the Tiananmen incident with the 1st May demonstrations in Germany where left extreme groups traditionally prefer to riot beyond much reason?

How many died in Germany this 1st May and how many at Tiananmen?

Demonstrations occur in working democracies. The difference to a dictatorship might be how the handle it. Violent demonstrations will be not tolerated as well, but they will be fought in the most modest way with pepper spray and water cannons and shooting into the people mass is unacceptable. Peaceful demonstrations will not face any opposing police actions as long as they are announced early enough. Unless it is a demonstration that includes Wiederbetätigung of right radicals there is nothing the German state could do to prevent that demonstration. (Whereas even the neonazis have the right to demonstrate and also use it)

Woo, when western gov crackdown demonstrations. it can be explained as "violent can't be tolerated", when we handled violent demonstrations it should be called" massacre"! I admit there was bloody crackdown in our affair, that affair was also caused by the wrong policy of our gov, it was rather a tragedy, although our gov doesn' t mention that, most chinese people know what ever happened, we are making efforts everyday to improve everything in our country on every aspects, ecomony, politics, education, health care etc, people are dedicated to make us live better and prevent tragedy happening again! However, in your opinion, that we should cast down our gov at once should just be the only way to resolve!
Besides criticism, our people can also set forth practical proposals which suit our actual situation to resolve and improve, but except criticism, your people can give us nothing useful but just do the entire same way of your countries!

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借我三千虎贲，复我浩荡中华! 汉旗指处，望尘逃遁！敢犯我中华天威者，虽远必诛!

If you would take care to inform yourself first, you would know that the 1st may demonstrations in Hamburg for example this year was more a less a violent battle between right and left extreme. The police has acted with appropriate means, ie mainly water cannons. If the Chinese police contains violent riots with modest means and without inappropriate means like the use of fire weapons, you won't find any word of criticism from my side.

And before we continue here with this game I tell you the difference between what happened in Germany on the 1st May and the "massacre" at Tienanmen. Its 200-3000 victims who lost their life (the number largely depends on the source). Thats the difference between containment of riots and a massacre at a peaceful demonstration.


Where do you know "my" opinion from? Actually thats not my opinion.

If nothing useful comes from Europe or the US I guess the time you spend here on this forum is lost time for you...

Yea I don't think mot westerners expect China to change over night, but if China
is join the family of free peace loving people it will have to come even further out of its Maoism.

Many westerners believe in the future of China, we just want its future to be bright, not dark like the Soviet Empire was in it heyday.

As for sticking noses into people's business I must remind you that in a world of nuclear weapons all political business is everyone's business. This is a big reason why everything the US does is watched and criticized by the whole world. Its valid as much as I may not like it.

That is rather distortion and aggrandizement, i have said that one of my uncle's friend was ever police in that affair, they arrested many people, killing actually exited, but just a few! 200-3000! Woo, good, just as recently west press said that there were more than 140 alleged "peaceful protestors" was killed in Tibet! Distortion is always the thing west press are good at!



If there weren't so many west lies and distortion, of course I wouldn't come here!
I think the most useful thing i can learn here from westerners is to criticize our gov ( in fact people do that almost everyday here just as westerners do), I am lucky and happy to see that our gov are giving more and more political freedom to people and listen to people's voice more than before, i think things will go better in future!

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借我三千虎贲，复我浩荡中华! 汉旗指处，望尘逃遁！敢犯我中华天威者，虽远必诛!