Would you be meaning here in a similar way to how cult leaders like to get their members to believe what they want so that they will always do what they want. They will always believe the leaders way is right rather than developing critical thinking.
Yes, this is easy to understand. It is always hard to recognize insights particularly if they make you see your country in a new light but we can never move on if we are unable to. Possibly this is made more difficult for people on here because they believe they are defending China. People may also be afraid to say anything which they feel is not 'straight Chinese thought' in case others respond to them as Chaochao did to you originally by calling them 'traitor' or something.

It is difficult and people need a safe environment to feel willing to risk saying things which they do not usually do or thinking over things they have previously accepted without thought. Of course they may also need to purchase ip hide programs!!!



Are you suggesting that Chinese people need to ask why they believe certain things? They may for instance find out the reason is because their class teacher told them it is so or because they do not want to be humiliated at having a different opinion or they are afraid to speak in a different way and so on.

This is a very good point and something all of us, not just Chinese people would benefit from keeping a check on.

(your points on heart and soul and inner motivation were also noted and I think understood, but I am trying to keep this simple!)
Well if I thought speaking my mind might land me in jail, I would think twice about it as well. It takes courage to do this.



What about when people go onto University? I would have thought it would be difficult to for instance study a Social Science or Politics degree with everyone giving the same answers!! I can imagine that T.S 1989 would have a strong effect on this. Teachers/Lecturers would not want to find themselves or their students in that position again.

You have brought up some interesting points here johnlss.

Just to make a slight correction on what I said here. I should not have said
'giving the same answers!!' but rather the same viewpoint. Would you say that in Social Science and Politics degrees people are either not given the reading material they need to come to a critical assessment or that they are simply penalized with a different view to the accepted one being considered 'wrong' or an inferior argument.

Books are censored,tv and film are sensored,newspapers and website,bbs,bolgs are censored.... that is why we said the YELLOW is not allow FREEDOM OF SPEECH !

Otherwise,why we call it INFORMATION PIG FARM !

What I'm curious about is when you use terms like 'the YELLOW is not allow FREEDOM OF SPEECH !'

and 'INFORMATION PIG FARM'.

What I am wondering is who 'we' are.

You ask the great question about our Chinese. Whom we are ,whom i am?

To make my own viewpoints more strong ,or more trustble, more truth , I will use the term chinese, all chinese people, china, at least we. That is the effects of Information Pig Farm education in China, or i called it the results of" brainwashed in Information Pig Farm ".

This is to avoid to show my stipud, or lack of information, knowledge, or at least avoid to be responsible for what we said...hehe

Such as CNN reply on Jack Cafferty comments:

"Dear Mr. Hai,

As you may know, Jack Cafferty recently gave an interview to Bill Press, a nationally syndicated political commentator in the United States. During that interview he was asked about his recent remarks that have been the subject of controversy in China and the United States. Mr. Cafferty responded :"And the one thing I regret was that some Chinese citizens in China and Chinese-Americans in this country felt like maybe I was insulting them. And that was never my intention. And I am sorry for that…"

I hope this clarifies matters for you.

Sincerely,

David C. Vigilante

Vice President-Legal"

Chinese government media has told chinese ,that Mr. Cafferty has apologized for what he said about the dictators of chiense government. "Now ,He is sorry for chinese people !"

Most of us chinese come to this forum,is used to talk any issues in the name us, we , China, chinese, chiense culture......

I feel so sorry and ashame for them, and i just want to take them as interenet commentors empolyeed Chinese government working for CCP.

Information Pig Farm is an new chinese term invited by Prof.Jiao Guo-biao, he was fired from his position in Beijing University after publish some comments on CCP propaganda department.

But this we you asking is Mr.Andy and John.

You ask the great question about our Chinese. Whom we are ,whom i am?

To make my own viewpoints more strong ,or more trustble, more truthful , I will use the term chinese, all chinese people, china, at least we. That is the effects of Information Pig Farm education in China, or i called it the results of" brainwashed in Information Pig Farm ".

This is to avoid to show my stipud, or lack of information, knowledge, or at least avoid to be responsible for what we said...hehe

Such as CNN reply on Jack Cafferty comments:

"Dear Mr. Hai,

As you may know, Jack Cafferty recently gave an interview to Bill Press, a nationally syndicated political commentator in the United States. During that interview he was asked about his recent remarks that have been the subject of controversy in China and the United States. Mr. Cafferty responded :"And the one thing I regret was that some Chinese citizens in China and Chinese-Americans in this country felt like maybe I was insulting them. And that was never my intention. And I am sorry for that…"

I hope this clarifies matters for you.

Sincerely,

David C. Vigilante

Vice President-Legal"

Chinese government media has told chinese ,that Mr. Cafferty has apologized for what he said about the dictators of china government. "Now ,He is sorry for chinese people !"

Most of us chinese come to this forum,is used to talk any issues in the name us, we , China, chinese, chiense culture......

I feel so sorry and ashame for them, and i just want to take them as interenet commentors empolyeed by Chinese government working for CCP.

"Information Pig Farm "is an new chinese term invited by Prof.Jiao Guo-biao, whom was fired from Beijing University after publish some comments on CCP propaganda department.

But this "we" you asking is Mr.Andy and John.

Thank you Johnlss,

It was just that if we used terms like 'yellow' to describe Chinese people we would be considered to be being abusive or racist. I just wanted to check that you were not someone of some other nationality who did not like the Chinese and wanted to trick me!! Thank you for clarifying that.

I think you made some very valid points and it was good to hear someone Chinese stating them here when, you are right, often Chinese people here act as if they were unaware these things were going on. It is a pity because it stops real communication.

While most of what you said was known to me already, the way you put it allowed me to get a greater understanding of how this effects people.

And to be fair, western media is not immune to putting misleading slants on things as well. We rely on the integrity of our Journalist to put things straight!!

So would I be right in thinking that the 'we' you talk about being Andy and John is you and your friend?

Was the discussion you began this thread with between you and your friend?

Yes, CCP dictators is cult leaders and its member cult members. When i was that cult member, i sweared to surrunder all my life ,that's only thing i had during that time, for its aim to liberty the whole humanbeing on earth,of cause by force !!..hehe.

But not only for cult member, they setup an information pig farm for all chinese people under its dictatorship ruling,its aim is to slavery them in a modern way, and it is successful untill today !
It is an modern slavery system being practiced in China by CCP.

The good thing is that this pig farm is not as strong as before, there are some leakages or holes on it.

I am happy that Chaochao called me "traitor", as his name implyed in chinese, it is dirty.
That means i have done something right this time. hehe.


Yes, you are correct. Use our own mind is an dangerious action in Modern slavery state of China as it was in most of its thousands year's YELLOW history.

Ip hide program alone not working in China, they are scaning and filtering contents in each of the interent data packages flows, thanks those "CHINESE" friends of Cissco ,Nortel and Yahoo! etc..

There is now freegate, ultrasurf,etc.. all free for Chinese. thanks you, the western enmey of " Chinese". It is your financial support makes those program working in Chinesized internet.




This is what a part of what the YELLOW means: those thoughts is only entitled to Emprore or State, as the YELLOW COLOR was for CHinese emporer.
It is forbiden for CHinese to talk or study politics with their own mind, those whom study political sceince in China is made to be YELLOW COLOR defenders, nothing else !

Those our teachers are not to be blamed for their teaching, it is the textbook editors whom to be blamed,and they working as collaboraters of those cult leaders, and on those books they are just ashamed or may be not allowed to leave their own names, just the TEAM OF XXX SUBJECT in most of the case.

It is the YELLOW dictators in China should be responsible.

Defend and expanding the idea of free speech is the best practice to fight against brianwash propaganda .

The case is that speaking in private is no problem,but publically spreading your thoughts will certainly land you in jail !!

We have some courage chinese doing and done such things, and there is more than 60 Chinese people still in jail, and more than 200 jailed or fleed to aboard for their practice free speech over internet .


"... those whom study political sceince in China is made to be YELLOW COLOR defenders, nothing else !"
Without make the same ansewers ,they will not be allowed to graduate from university.
They are there to study to be slavery mind and/or be the hair on dictator's skin, as the defination of them in the dictator's dictionery.

But tell me, you say when you were a cult member, what changed? How did you change your mind?
Tell me more about this. Why do you think it is slavery?



Yes, this is a good thing and this is what people who come onto the board always say....and like i said yesterday BBC journalists were very impressed at how quick China was to give information about the quake.

However, there is a long way to go, particularly with your people's human rights and diversity of thinking. I can imagine it will feel a lot easier for some people at the moment when everyone more or less thinks the same, rather than needing to argue why they believe in something.

I think that Chaochao just says what he feels. I don't think he is as closed off as many people. Hopefully he will come to see that being critical or having a different opinion is not the same as being a traitor.
It depends on what your mind is! I was watching a program last night on one of our comedian's visiting China. He was eating with some very rich people and they were assuring him that there is complete freedom of speech and no political prisoners at all.

He came to the conclusion that there was complete freedom of speech as long as you said what the Chinese authorities wanted to hear.

He also made the point that we are probably more communist here in the UK where we have health services free to everyone at the point of need, whereas he said people in China now had to pay for this.

Yes, but it still sounds like a bit of an insult!

People need to know that there are alternative ways to think before they can actually start doing it. Chinese people, for instance showed that they were as capable as anyone else in understanding different ideas if given a chance in 1989. A safer way of them using these ideas is all that is required.



Well if China is intending on moving towards democracy as I hear people say, then I would have thought that one of the most important things they would need to do was to allow people to get a broader understanding of ideas...a wider curriculum and books by all kinds of people.

It is very hard for people even to understand the need for free speech if they are not exposed to other ideas.

I know a lot of Russians don't like democracy much at all. It's a bit difficult for me to understand. I think part of it is that they were used to being looked after by the State before and part maybe because there is so much corruption.
Yes, there are always brave people and they are always needed.


It is so strange. This is generally considered to be something which needs a lot of critical study

1989 T.S and Bible changed my mind.
T.S make me believe CCP Yellow no more, and Bible God give me a new life to see, hear, and say.
Slavery means that you cannot have your own right about your heart and soul,what's you said and doing publically is not out of your decision,but your lord ,your owner.
In modern words ,where there is no human rights,that is slavery.
Even the relationship between believers and God after Jesus is friendship,Bible said that we are friend of Jesus,not slavery anymore.that is modern concept of human relationship,that gives the idea of human rights originated for me.Even in Jesus as GOD,he treat us as his friend,not his slavery,his belongings, his property.

Those CCP cult members in Yellow mind is taking our Chinese as slavery by using brainwash tricks in Chinese information pig farm.
This is an modern slavery,it must be destoried. The free world must be aware of it while understanding China,
Brainwash will not work in free press society,but it works in information Pig Farm.

Before western civilization come to China,we have an system that believe someone is belong to his lord,the chines emporer, whom can feed and/or kill us as his will. simliar system exist in Tibet , asia and other place.
This has not changed today in China,YELLOW cult think they can do anything to chinese ,which they said they represented, in China mainland.


I could kill any westerners with any means without any thought before 1989. we are edcuated to destroy western evil system and liberty you from slavery. only in 1989, i found that we are actually living in hell instead of others, this hell continue till today in China.


We YELLOW culture believe that united and collective is the source of power, individualism human rights and diversity will make people and country weak. Those YELLOW mind can not feel any value without united,or by practice the slavery of people in the name of an cult,organization or nations. Only in collective or mass,they can feel they are powerful an his life mean something.

Slavery make people as happy as pigs in pig farm,if there is enough feed stuffs. That is what happen today and yesterday in China history.If there is nature disasters happen, or out of control by YELLOW in chinese society, Another YELLOW will take over by promise the same feed stuffs in an more atractive name.

As that disscuss said,software side of life, or what we believe, what on our heart and soul means nothing for the YELLOW mind and its slavery minded. We just eat each other fleshly, instead of mentally feed each other at the same time.
We just do not never believe that LOVE ,Care from heart and soul means something ,not to sayas the most important in living a life as human as Bible told us.



I do not want to know what's on his mind,but God will care,and just wish him understand that there is someone on this earth whom love and care him so much.
May God blessing him.
Rule of this forum, issue instead of man.hehe

Yes, it depends on where you minds is. he is correct. be an model slavery chinese,that is what the YELLOW want.

Freedom of speech, can mean anything in Chinese, such as the human rights. Do you know that ex- chinese Primer Li peng, one of the T.S killer ,told the world that human righs in CHina is the right of eat, is it mean something for you? Pig in Pig Farm has the same rights.

IT seems that The YELLOW is very strong and influential, he know how to make people fleshly happy!
Your health service is too commnunist,i think it is some of your YELLOW mind politicans made it to compitive with Communism during cold war. People everywhere wish to take for free,but finally you will have to pay in this or other ways.
The supply what you needed for any person in commnuism thoughts eats millinions human life, while your free health system kills more patients than it should have been saved with the same investment i believe. IT is the same Yellow thoughts being practiced in different place.
China was and is never have had any commnuism or socialism,if we put everything in an sicetific ways to exam. It is just another practice of YELLOW history in different name.

I do not care it is insult or not for them,it is their own personal reaction should be responsible anyway.I am not attack any specified people here, like chaochao or anyone.
Just wish to describe the reality in an clearly picture,which can make us understand.

insult them is better than slavery them. i do not wish my same blood originated chinese just feel slavery pride,if insult them is the only weapon i have now.
If it can make us out of slavery mind,insult is an choice.
Anyway,insult is just an behavoir reaction,shameful is more internal one.
I wish our chinese can develope something shameful and guilty.

Freedom will make our people angrey at many things, same happend when MOSS taken Isreal out of Egypt.





That is where the commnuism first be practiced, any way, russian is more creative in this regards than our CHinese. It is russian brought that commnuism virus into China and killed tens and hundreds millions our CHinese.
That means that They are continuously paying their price untill today.


In china ,FOOD is our GODs. Those students and scholars in YELLOW's most important aim is our FOOD GODs, study is just tools in persuiting for our CHINESE FOOD GODs.

all the others can be treated as secondery important,critical study is not be allowed or more nothing important than the CHINESE GODs.