When you and the Western Media mention 'human rights' is a vague word. First of all, it happens in every country. The other day I saw a video of about 10 cops stopped a car getting 3 black people out of a car and giving them a beatdown. Chinese media don't politicalize this nor do they usually mention this in the news because China respects this as an internal issue. Outside Human Rights Groups are more than happy to point out when cops manhandle its own Chinese citizens. So Westerners are more than happy to point out of human rights abuses when Chinese police went around beating Tibean monks about 10 years ago, but don't think it is human rights case when monks are manhandled and beaten in Nepal and India 2 months ago. That's why I think when you and the Western Nations join the chorus to complain on China's record on human rights, but fail to back up on any of China's recent misgivings.

As I have studied American History and watch Western Media from a point of view of a layman, we see things as good and bad, black and white, cops and robbers, us and the terrorists. What I see is that The Western Nations are the always good guys because we want always want to point out why the communists like China are bad guys without pointing at ourselves at fault.

When you and the Western Media mention 'human rights' is a vague word. First of all, it happens in every country. The other day I saw a video of about 10 cops stopped a car getting 3 black people out of a car and giving them a beatdown. Chinese media don't politicalize this nor do they usually mention this in the news because China respects this as an internal issue. Outside Human Rights Groups are more than happy to point out when cops manhandle its own Chinese citizens. So Westerners are more than happy to point out of human rights abuses when Chinese police went around beating Tibean monks about 10 years ago, but don't think it is human rights case when monks are manhandled and beaten in Nepal and India 2 months ago. That's why I think when you and the Western Nations join the chorus to complain on China's record on human rights, but fail to back up on any of China's recent misgivings.

As I have studied American History and watch Western Media from a point of view of a layman, we see things as good and bad, black and white, cops and robbers, us and the terrorists. What I see is that The Western Nations are the always good guys because we want always want to point out why the communists like China are bad guys without pointing at ourselves at fault.

At least they're not like those East Asia media, always downplaying Nanjing
Human Rights does not come from the media, but has a legal definition in the ICC.

Most crimes happen in all countries, does that alleviate China's problems? No.

The Chinese don't politicize it because it's a domestic affair? That doesn't make any sense at all. And yes, China have big human rights problems and they will be made available to the public of any free societies. "We" are not really happy about it, I personally wish it would stop. There's no targeting here; China does have bad human rights issues.

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I was replying to the question
again it was Pug_ster who brought this up when he mentioned 'Chinese protesters,'


As to the rest, it has to do with your thinking, not mine.

Why not, the jews always want to remind us about the Holocaust all the time.

Canada certainly didn't use its moral values to push on the US on its human rights issues. They are certainly powerless to get a juvenile out like Omar Khadr out. The list of human rights issue in China is shorter than the one for the US.

You are correct that there are several interpretations given if you look on the net. I guess I would go along with ' Universal rights to which every person is entitled because they are justified by a moral standard that stands above the laws of any individual.' Clearly then you are left with the question as to who decides what these rights are. I am happy to go along with Amnesty International. It deals with these same rights through out the world and hence can be seen as a general standard for all.
Yes, and this does get widespread media attention here. If this happens in the US it is on our headlines here in the UK. The Rodney King incident in 1992 gave rise to riots when the police were let off by the jury ignoring the evidence. These things are bad and people get well upset about them, but at the present time they are not the norm. If they were there would be a lot more marches and publicity and people working for them to change.

I don't agree this is an internal issue. This is an issue about human rights and so is of interest to us all due to us all being human.
We don't see Chinese cops manhandling their own citizens here in the UK, but if they do and human rights groups get to hear about it then it is correct to note it, in the same way as it is correct to note what is happening in Guantanamo Bay and any other abuses that it finds in any country in the world.

I accept that China is not used to this, but if it is going to become part of the International community it cannot avoid it, just the same as every other nation cannot avoid it.
You are right that these issues were not given much mention on the news and I think that was wrong. I have to be honest though I would have thought China would have been pleased about this as it would have brought more attention and interest about the situation in Tibet.

I don't understand what your getting at here. Honest, I just don't.

Well this could be what you have been seeing, but I doubt if this is how most people with any level of education would view things.

There are though some fundamental differences. These are so strong that they cannot be left alone...and I guess they belong to a person's right to choose how they live their lives - hence the support for free Tibet, people's rights to speak their minds and their rights to be treated in a humane manner. As I said these are Internationally accepted norms and all countries which do not live by them will be criticized.

That is not to say there is not a wealth of good in China and that that there are not things which the world could benefit from, it is just that some things are just so basic you cannot pretend they are not happening...wherever they are happening, in China or anywhere else.

China is going through a sort of non violent revolution at the moment. That includes beginning to have contact with the outside world. In the next 20 years China like other countries will change a great deal. None of us knows how this will happen, but it will.

LOL. Good stuff. At least we acknowledge our faults and don't excuse them with mis-guided nationalism.

The problem is how the Western Nations do this. Whenever China has problem with 'human rights', the Western Nations have no second thoughts to use the Media to shame China. Second, these Western Nations only care about 'human rights' of the people who are backed by Western NGO's, like the Tibetans and activists like Hu Jia. There were numerous protests by the Chinese that has no political motivation that it was not harshly cracked down, nor do the West have any interest on them, as an example that cindy6 posted about.

Believe it or not, the chinese government does change for the better. Unfortunately, this is not what the West advertise.

Sun Zhigang's brutal killers sentenced

This is another incident that the Western Nations didn't care about.

BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Conflicts mar Guangdong dream

The problem is that the Western Nations don't see eye-to-eye with most of the Chinese citizens on what they want on democratic reforms and human rights issues. The West uses its political muscle to support the Tibetan protesters and the Free Tibet movement, whereas most of the Chinese citizens against the Tibetan protesters and the Free Tibet movement because they are considered splittists. Most of the Chinese Citizens sees human rights issues with the 2 mentioned above, yet the West didn't feel it is important enough to flex their political muscle on this issue. They also know what are the environmental issues like what cindy6 mentioned earlier, again, the West didn't flex their political muscle on that issue also.

I think if the West can help China to get rid of the corruption within China, it would be a giant step towards to a more democratic country.

In general newspapers want to sell. Most will want headlines that their readers will quickly recognize and be interested in buying. No, Western Nations are not in the business of 'shaming' China. I don't even know if that's what newspapers are trying to do.

You must have some papers where you are living which give a less comic book approach to the news.

However, and I think Mikado also said this in connection with the BBC, you will find that newspapers do the same to everyone. Gordon Brown the current Prime Minister here is responsible for almost everything that has gone wrong in the UK since he became Prime Minister according to the news!

I have a sneaking suspicion I might have heard of the protests Cindy6's mentions on the BBC. Maybe not....but for anything which is not 'topical' of the moment, we would be more likely to hear about it through a documentary.

You have to be selective in the news you read and watch. I have just one daily newspaper I read and two Sunday one's.

I'll watch any regular news if I just want to know what is going on. If there is something that particularly interests me, there is 1 station which I feel gives a more in depth look at current news (and it's not the BBC). Then if I'm still interested I'll watch Newsnight which is on the BBC and also find that watching BBC's News24 particularly through the night gives me information I don't necessarily find anywhere else.

If I look at the same issue through several different sources, I eventually find I have enough material to come to my decision on it. I do not however always find anywhere that has my point of view.

NGO'S. Surely it is better having organisations that are not attached to any government bringing Human rights to people's attention. Do you not think that means they will be more impartial? Their interest is simply what they are reporting rather than any interest to their own country. Obviously they can only write about things which they either know about or which they are alerted to.



I do appreciate that Chinese people on here feel the Government is changing for the better.



I would think most people want all Chinese people to have the right to say what they want and to have human rights up to a good standard.

I think Western countries let Tibet down when they allowed the Chinese to take it over in the first place...and I suspect that is something that is going to cause continuing difference...not between Western governments and China but more concerning ordinary people. People will go with whatever the people of Tibet want to happen...and on this one it is surely more fair that that does belong to the Tibetan people in Tibet.

With regard to things like environmental issues. Now these do become topical quite often...but these are more a global issue. You would therefor be more likely to find news about protests on things like this when pollution is in the news, even more so when Chinese pollution is in the news. I don't think this is anything to do with prejudice but rather because there is only so much news which can be heard or written about in one day. Chinese people can of course tell western newspapers or tv of these happenings if they want to get them covered and I dare say they would have a very good chance of that happening. The news would of course put it's own slant on it and that is a problem that everyone has.

Wow, that's an interesting one!! I found a link and it said in 2000 Finland was the least corrupt with Europe in general doing particularly well.

CNN.com - Finland 'least corrupt country in the world' - September 13, 2000.

I wish I could help you on that one! I guess if it was me I would send people to some of the best countries to find out how they manage it. China however is so big that what suits smaller European countries may not work for it.


Try to look at what people are saying rather than being hurt.

China has been living on its own for a long time. Obviously if it wishes to be involved in International things, it is going to need to take into account International opinion or at the very least it will become aware of international opinion. In the end, China will either change in certain key areas, move back out of the International arena or will need to put up with International opinion. Try not to always think it is the world against China.

I did mean it when I said I thought China seemed to be going through a non violent revolution right now. Revolutions are tumultuous times. Hopefully it will feel worth it in the end.

So because of that, China is the happiest place in the world yaaa

Yes, Canada had two major issues concerning it. Does that excuse the CCP at all? Does that mean the CCP's issues shouldn't be criticized especially when it accounts for much higher numbers and censors everything? Will the likes of you ever stop it with such fallacies?

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