We don't want to know what "the problems with people like you" is, if that refers to people on this forum. You keep that to yourself. The forum rules say:

"Discuss the issue, not your opponent."

It would be more appropriate to say:

Your Western ideas of spreading democracy to China like some kind of White Man's burden is wrong. At first alot of Chinese might agree with you. However, since the incident with the Olympics, they have seconds thoughts that Western Nations are great as they thought it is.

__________________
"Of course the fact that a person believes in racial equality doesn't prove that he's a communist...but it certainly makes you look twice, doesn't it? You can't get away from the fact that racial equality is part of the communist line." - Joseph McCarthy

Political Forum Diplomacy Game Map (In Progress)
Current Diplomacy thread

I believe that what this person is saying is that Chinese value ECONOMIC freedom, which he says is freedom from having to be a poor farmer in China. I do not believe he is talking about you feeding any pigs. I would bear in mind the fluency (or lack thereof) of the English language on this thread.

__________________
"Of course the fact that a person believes in racial equality doesn't prove that he's a communist...but it certainly makes you look twice, doesn't it? You can't get away from the fact that racial equality is part of the communist line." - Joseph McCarthy

Political Forum Diplomacy Game Map (In Progress)
Current Diplomacy thread

The forum rules can be a bit difficult for people whose native language is not English. That is because it sets boundaries, that native speakers of English can see, but it is not so easy to see that for others. The easiest way to deal with this problem is to talk to the person as if they were sitting right across from you over lunch or dinner. One would not say "the problem with people like you...." to someone they were having a meal with. That would be considered rude, regardless of what country you live in, so discussing things in that way, will help to keep things civil.


WEB

__________________
"Of course the fact that a person believes in racial equality doesn't prove that he's a communist...but it certainly makes you look twice, doesn't it? You can't get away from the fact that racial equality is part of the communist line." - Joseph McCarthy

Political Forum Diplomacy Game Map (In Progress)
Current Diplomacy thread

Maybe I've taken too personally because it was not the first time that she has posted another speech about spreading democracy in China and I am getting sick of it.

Openness simply makes things more honest. It allows people within the society to be aware of what is going on. Freedom of the press and allowing an internationally accepted level of human rights would I believe result in a more fair society. I am absolutely sure you are right that everyone would like their lives improved, but you have said before you have no interest in the plight of people who are without education and have no food to eat. I don't understand this.

I think smallpox describes some reasons why openness and human rights would benefit people of China here.


First of all I have never said that China was a 'backward' society.

I don't know whether I know the social problems in China more or less than you because you have never showed any concern about them.

I never write on anything I know nothing about. I have seen documentaries on the above issues which smallpox is talking about. Also on other issues within China. These documentaries talk to the people of China and I believe give a more balanced picture of China.

As Mikado has also mentioned, we have at the moment a series of programs on schooling in China and before that had a series on Tibet, so you are wrong to accuse me of not knowing anything.




Took me some time to find out what FYI china was, but I now know it is for your information.

Yes, people can visit China.

Well this is your assumption but has nothing to do with me. Of course I was very upset watching Tiananmem Square and I would question what kind of human being would not have been. We have however dealt with that. To equate that with the belief that I think all Chinese people are 'greasy msg filled chinese food or another Jackie Chan movie' belongs to your own imagination and has nothing to do with me.

I was replying to issues within a post, nothing more.

Perhaps I misunderstood you. If you were meaning as WEB says
Then I apologize for saying you were being rude.

I can understand why you would value economic freedom as you did not have it before and it has obviously given you some control over your life. That is a good point.

I am not an economist and am keeping an eye on smallpox and the Lying Dutchman to learn more.

However since we have been living with a very free rein on economics here in this country, I have noticed changes which I don't think are too good and which I do hope at some point will be changed.

I have noticed we have an underclass of people who now are turning more and more to gangs and guns and even people in their teens killing each other.

I have noticed that the emphasis on free economics has allowed things to come into being which before we worked hard to change.

We however do have safety nets, we do have human rights for our people and we do have all kinds of ways in which people can protest - not the least to get the papers onto their case.

So while I can understand that it must feel like a great freedom to have economic freedom, there is also another side to this which could well mean that some people suffer more.

I think therefor it probably is necessary to address both issues.

I'd like to tell my Chinese go-gos not to get too upset from some gweilo "willy-waving"* posts. A lot of them are only aiming at winding you up, guys/gals. I'm quite glad living in one of your country's regions. Granted it's an SAR but still a nice gate to the mainland culture. Even if sometimes I also don't understand it all, I stand with the motto: "When in Rome...".






* "willy waving" is an expression used a lot on our local expat forums here.

__________________
-Sed quis custodiet ipsos custodes? (Decimus Iunius Iuuenalis).
Murphy was a bleedin' optimist!

Regardless of your saying' "willy waving" is an expression used a lot on our local expat forums here.' to write ' gweilo "willy-waving"' certainly appears to be abusive. You do not even try to explain whether "willy-waving" is directed at both men and women and whether it is an insult aimed at someone because you disagree with what they say or male bravado. It is difficult to think it would belong to women.
This thread was started by a Chinese person and was taken to be a genuine thread. As I am the only non Chinese person to have written on this thread, I can only imagine that this is directed at me. If you have an issue with something I have said, I suggest you address it rather than coming on with what certainly appears as abuse to me.

This is all true...but this may or may not be the relavent aspects of their society to be focusing on. There are also things that China has accomplished that should be the envy of the West, such the lack of religious hostilities in their history. (The conflict in the Middle East would just not happen in Confucian Asia.) It all depends really on which parts you want to see.

Remember that due to China's completely different traditions, they can be incredibly bad marketers of their own culture. The Tiananmen thing you keep bringing up is certainly bad, but keep in mind that the good things they do. Suppose to ward off whatever personal bad karma they got from instigating such an event they decided to save, say, 10,000 people from some kind of preventable death. Such a thing wouldn't necessarily have any publicity at all, and you most likely wouldn't know about it, yet it's fairly plausible that something like that did take place in some at least indirect fashion. Their 'economic miracle' has certainly created much more welfare for the Chinese people, beyond any reasonable expectations for a country in their position, than all their human rights violations could take away...Westerners tend to put these two into different categories, but that may or may not be a valid approach. The object, of course, is to keep the good while discarding the bad...this may or may not be possible.

If you really are interested in learning in Chinese culture, a forum like this might be one of the worst places to start out.