Please could some-one explain to me about ROC and PROC - Page 3 - Political Forum

orange dave · 04-24-2008, 06:35 AM

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Originally Posted by smallpox

The US doesn't have an alliance with Taiwan. .

Well, whatever word you like. How about 'alignment.' The US sells weapons to Taiwan, and it obviously wouldn't do the same for China.

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Originally Posted by Intranetusa

So it's ironic he's seen as the "great patriot" who fought off the Japanese invasion when in reality the KMT nationalists did most of the work.

Yes, the Taiwanese did most of the work...both for and against. In fact, their pro-Japanese streak continues to this day, where you will see textbook disputes similar to those in Japan.

Say what you like about the PRC's attitude towards historical truth, but you will never see Japanese historical myths being parroted anywhere in mainland China.

chaochao · 04-24-2008, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smallpox

Is that supposed to be a pun from San Guo de Cao Ca, hai shi shi ni de ming zi ma?

You mean " chaochao"? Haha, it is my name, "chao" is my name, in Chinese it is 超 meaning "exceed"! are you Chinese or Canadian? It is really surprising that you know much about Chinese modern history.

Intranetusa · 04-24-2008, 09:07 AM

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Originally Posted by Kazikli Bey

No, actually, the CCP did a lot of fighting, and was more effective against the Japanese then what they Kuomintang was.

A lot of guerrilla fighting, yes...but all the important battles that actually involved defending major cities were left to the KMT. So I disagree with the statement that the "CCP was more effective against the Japanese then what they Kuomintang was."

Quote:

Originally Posted by orange dave

Yes, the Taiwanese did most of the work...both for and against. In fact, their pro-Japanese streak continues to this day, where you will see textbook disputes similar to those in Japan.

Say what you like about the PRC's attitude towards historical truth, but you will never see Japanese historical myths being parroted anywhere in mainland China.

The difference is Chinese propaganda regarding WW2 is pervasive in the educational system, whereas Japanese propaganda regarding WW2 is regulated to textbooks of extreme right wingers.

smallpox · 04-24-2008, 01:25 PM

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Well, whatever word you like. How about 'alignment.' The US sells weapons to Taiwan, and it obviously wouldn't do the same for China.

Sure, it would if China didn't make their own weapons and insisted on it. Money is money, whether it's from the CCP or the ROC.

smallpox · 04-24-2008, 01:26 PM

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You mean " chaochao"? Haha, it is my name, "chao" is my name, in Chinese it is 超 meaning "exceed"! are you Chinese or Canadian? It is really surprising that you know much about Chinese modern history.

I'm French Canadien.

mikado · 04-24-2008, 07:13 PM

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Originally Posted by smallpox

The US doesn't have an alliance with Taiwan. While it might supply it with some minor weapons in the event of a war, it will not intervene. It has made this very clear since the 1960's.

Not so clear - you should follow the movement of US carrier groups during Taiwanese elections. Also see the Taiwan Relations Act.

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Also, the US is seen as somewhat involved since it, amongst many foreign nation, has supported and financed the Kuomingtang's army during the Chinese civil war. Although it has renounced to all military aid to the latter since the Sino-Soviet Split.

"Latter" = KMT? If so, that's plainly not true.

mikado · 04-24-2008, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by orange dave

Yes, the Taiwanese did most of the work...both for and against.

Sorry, but this makes no sense at all. The Taiwanese didn't do "most of the work" for anyone during WWII.

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In fact, their pro-Japanese streak continues to this day, where you will see textbook disputes similar to those in Japan.

Say what you like about the PRC's attitude towards historical truth, but you will never see Japanese historical myths being parroted anywhere in mainland China.

Can you give an example of a Japanese myth parrotted in Taiwan today? I think that's untrue.

smallpox · 04-24-2008, 10:37 PM

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Not so clear - you should follow the movement of US carrier groups during Taiwanese elections. Also see the Taiwan Relations Act.

Bush declared it. And what does the movement of US carrier mean say? It could mean anything.
What part of the Act is unclear? Plus it's not like it's been upheld in times of tensions between China and Taiwan.

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"Latter" = KMT? If so, that's plainly not true.

That is true.
Taiwan Timeline — Infoplease.com
U.S. mulls cutoff of military aid to Taiwan: Pro-independence remarks draw American ire.(A) | Washington Times, The | Find Articles at BNET.com

This should clear it up.

Again, I'd like get an answser; what strategic location does Taiwan have?

If the US declares war on China, THIS WILL BE THE FIRST TIME IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD THAT TWO INTERDEPENDENT NATIONS GO AT WAR.

Kazikli Bey · 04-25-2008, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intranetusa

A lot of guerrilla fighting, yes...but all the important battles that actually involved defending major cities were left to the KMT. So I disagree with the statement that the "CCP was more effective against the Japanese then what they Kuomintang was."

Not really, the Japanese really couldn't push forward any more then what they already were without risking becoming undermanned in offences and defences. Think about it, they already had taken over most of South-East Asia by this time, and there is no real way that they could have taken any more of China without risking it. Another point in contention is that, if the KMT was better at defending major cities, how come they lost so much of China so quickly? They had lost they whole eastern sea board in about 10-15 years.

orange dave · 04-25-2008, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Intranetusa

The difference is Chinese propaganda regarding WW2 is pervasive in the educational system, whereas Japanese propaganda regarding WW2 is regulated to textbooks of extreme right wingers.

Also, the Japanese have more to hide...

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikado

Sorry, but this makes no sense at all. The Taiwanese didn't do "most of the work" for anyone during WWII.

I mean to draw a distinction between 'busy work' and 'constructive work' - many Nationalists died; however their contrubutions would have been more helpful with more work on the political side to keep members of their party from collaborating with the enemy.

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Originally Posted by mikado

Can you give an example of a Japanese myth parrotted in Taiwan today? I think that's untrue.

The Strait Scoop by Bevin Chu

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To understand the mindset of the Taiwan independence elite, try to imagine Jewish victims of the Shoah as militant Holocaust deniers. Mind-boggling, I know, but truth is often stranger than fiction. Merely one example: on orders from Lee Teng-hui, the ROC Ministry of Education is busily engaged in Orwellian historical revisionism, rewriting K-12 textbooks to echo textbooks in Japan, which whitewash WWII Japanese war crimes while blaming China and other victims of Japanese militarism.

I'm trying to find a less partisan source on this, but I've never found a claim of historical revisionism in East Asia to be without at least a grain of truth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by smallpox

Sure, it would if China didn't make their own weapons and insisted on it. Money is money, whether it's from the CCP or the ROC.

I'm not sure I'm going to believe this one without a cite...it's certainly not "very clear" that the US wouldn't use force to protect Taiwan. Check out this wikipedia article Policy of deliberate ambiguity. Or even from a right-wing site: America's "China Policy" Is in Urgent Need of Definition

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaochao

-Is that supposed to be a pun from San Guo de Cao Ca, hai shi shi ni de ming zi ma?

You mean " chaochao"? Haha, it is my name, "chao" is my name, in Chinese it is 超 meaning "exceed"! are you Chinese or Canadian? It is really surprising that you know much about Chinese modern history.

I'm confused now. San Gou Yan Yi is from thousands of years ago, not modern...